2/22/2012 -> Can we get an update on where the Combat Log is?

I said HC Ragnaros in Cataclysm expansion that was killed first time by a best guild in the world with sponsored and unlimited play time players that has recruited people for 8 years in a game that has 10 million players and it took 500 wipes.

I agree with you on old Molten Core Ragnaros, apart of maybe 4hm and KT in old naxx vanilla raiding was very easy mode but no one mentioned it was hard at 40 man raid times, just like EQ1 massive raids didnt mean anything, it was more about finding enough better or dedicated players than average population.


Now, when you say you done em both, when did you do HC Ragnaros or how many old EQ1 raiders were involved in it? I can answer, you havent and prolly none.

Dont bring 40 man raids into this discussion, Vanilla raiding was a discgrace and yes, i did it atsame time when i was watching TV and first time i "had" to pay attention was at C*thun and after starting bosses in naxx 40. Current Nightmare moes are early MC level in terms of difficulty, doesnt sound very nightmare to anyone.


Edit: in which guild you cleared AQ40 or NAXX without vent or meters? Would like to know.

I stopped playing WoW during LK - it became too much of a joke. So no, I didn't kill HC Rag in Cata.

But I guarantee you you look at the list of Raiders that took down HC Rag. And you will find EQ vets - that is a guarantee. Those Hardcore gamers have been doing it since 1998, and have never stopped. They were the bet then, and they are the best now.

Dude, he's talking about the newer version of ragnaros during the current wow expansion in the Firelands raid. Look it up. It was insanely difficult, it took the best guild in the world over 500 attempts to kill.

Fact is, the game can't have bosses with complicated mechanics like the ones in ragnaros without a combat log or damage meter. You can make bosses hard by upping their damage output or increasing their health or tightening their enrage but those are all boring solutions.

I've read the majority of your posts throughout this thread and if I'm being honest all I see in you is a long time gamer fighting change. Logs, meters and addons are the next step in gaming evolution whether you like it or not. With how fast this industry changes they're actually old news already and the fact this game has none of them is utterly ridiculous and a step back technologically.

I get where you're coming from, everyone thinks things from their youth were made better or were the way they should have been but that's not the case. Things are created and adopted for a reason, people want/need them.

The gamers, with all their intelligence and savvy created these features to make their quality of life within games better. I'm not saying anything that will break the game or trivialize boss fights should be allowed but BW would be foolish not to tap into the mod communities resources. No matter how hard they try to create a better functioning UI someone out there among the thousands and thousands of people capable of writing software will do it better. It's like one big, humongous brain that's directly plugged into the player base and knows what people want.

You can continue to fight it but eventually there will be addons and meters in this game. You can blame the meters for people belittling others but really it's not the meters fault. It's like blaming the gun in a murder and not the person who pulled the trigger. Players will belittle others even without meters, just as you can commit murder without the use of a gun.

As has been said so many times throughout this thread, you can always not use them and find like minded players to play with. I'm perfectly fine with them keeping a level of operations that's doable without any logs or addons. I'm asking that you and the other naysayers be okay with them upping the difficulty of nightmare modes and implementing the features many of us want so we can go beat our heads against a wall on a boss on par with Heroic Ragnaros if we enjoy that kinda thing (I personally spent over 400 wipes on him with my guild before downing him, was still my most satisfying moment in a video game to date).

No vent, no meters in 72 man Plane of Water - EQ. Planes of Power expansion.

You need to understand the gravity of the situation, when you arent able to communicate easily via vent in stressful moments. Don't under estimate the fact that when you entered the Plane of Water with 72 people and an adjustment had to be made on the fly, you had to trust that vast portions of your raid were going to make the right adjustments at the right time without someone screaming in their ear. Or DBM showing them a big flashing neon sign of what they need to do.

72 people all on the same page. In unison. The only means of communication was chat. The time it took your guild to farm previous encounters to get EVERYONE geared up for the next encounter was 3x as long. You didn't boot people. You helped them. Because otherwise you would have to reflag and regear someone else. Community. Guilds that stayed together for 5 years at a time.

You average gamer today has no idea what it means to make a committment to a raid group to be successful - sorry. Too many people clear the content. There wa snothing prestigous about being in ICC 1 month afer WotLK came out. Tons of guilds were doing it.

20% of the EQ population cleared the Plane of Time before the next expansion. It was more difficult. Plain and simple.

So, on what grounds youre basing that argument and how WoW raiding was so easy compared to EQ? What was highest tier boss you killed in Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK leaving out cata ofc. Did your guild without vent or dmg meters in vanilla kill 4 hm or KT in old naxx, C'tun or Viscious(as ally) in Vanilla? Did your guild without vent or dmg meters in TBC kill Muru and onwards in Sunwell Plateau or Gruul prenerf? Did your guild without vent and dmg meters in wotlk kill yogg with 0 adds, algalon, HC firefighter, HC lich king before 10%?

We used all of those tools available in WoW.

You know what? It was easier. I was also in 5 different guilds in 6 years in WoW. Because so many raids were puggable. LOL.

Progression Flagging Systems? Keys? Nope, just bring anyone you want in WoW!

Puggable raids in EQ when content was end game content - DID NOT EXIST. The content was TOO HARD.

It had 450k subs, 5% of wows subs, raid were with 72 people which were completerd with 15 people dead at a time when general player population had no clue. Most common cause between win or fail was that you couldnt find 72 awesome players in same raid, i dount that game even had 72 awesome players all together in sense that is it nowdays.

We found common ground on applying dmg meters for guild use only but you showing your stupid EQ1 raid comparisons and knowledge of the raid difficulty of modern day makes you look like a fool.

So, answer my questions in a post you made this quote. wWhich considred to be hard bosses you killed in wow without vent or dmg meters, or with em? none. I talked earlier about 500 wipes on HC ragnaros and you said it was easy, you did it in MC. You dont even know what we are talking here so stop posting.

Yes, Yes i do