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2/22/2012 -> Can we get an update on where the Combat Log is?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
2/22/2012 -> Can we get an update on where the Combat Log is?
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Morthis's Avatar


Morthis
02.24.2012 , 10:20 AM | #741
Please no combat logs or damage meters. Without those I can afk all night in raids and collect free loot because nobody can tell I'm not fighting. Seriously, who needs that anyway!

JohraTon's Avatar


JohraTon
02.24.2012 , 10:34 AM | #742
Quote: Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
Please no combat logs or damage meters. Without those I can afk all night in raids and collect free loot because nobody can tell I'm not fighting. Seriously, who needs that anyway!
But you can't because we don't have the lame x-server queue lobby which affords you the anonymity needed to be a tail and ruin it for your party members by not pulling your weight.

You'd simply be kicked from group and never invited to go again.

Plenty of groups are clearing this content without the need for them, if your struggling without them I fear for you.
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Veluthurk's Avatar


Veluthurk
02.24.2012 , 10:36 AM | #743
Quote: Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
Please no combat logs or damage meters. Without those I can afk all night in raids and collect free loot because nobody can tell I'm not fighting. Seriously, who needs that anyway!
Add LFR and hope that no one sets Master Looter.

Score a trifecta

Morthis's Avatar


Morthis
02.24.2012 , 11:53 AM | #744
Quote: Originally Posted by JohraTon View Post
You'd simply be kicked from group and never invited to go again.

Plenty of groups are clearing this content without the need for them, if your struggling without them I fear for you.
I wouldn't be kicked for the simple reason that nobody would have the means to find out. As long as I move up with the group and watch tv while mashing the same button over and over you'd never find out I'm not doing anything anyway. Especially since 99% of mechanics in this game don't kill you if you don't avoid them, so all mechanics I'm tanking while watching TV would just be turned into the healer's problem, with no clear log to tell anyone I'm standing in everything.

corbanite's Avatar


corbanite
02.24.2012 , 12:02 PM | #745
Quote: Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
I wouldn't be kicked for the simple reason that nobody would have the means to find out. As long as I move up with the group and watch tv while mashing the same button over and over you'd never find out I'm not doing anything anyway. Especially since 99% of mechanics in this game don't kill you if you don't avoid them, so all mechanics I'm tanking while watching TV would just be turned into the healer's problem, with no clear log to tell anyone I'm standing in everything.
pretty sure the healer would know or maybe he will be just like you and focus on the tank and spam the same button repeatedly

Yes people slack.. Had one idiot playing his PS3 on a progression run... that was his last raid with us.

GeorgZoeller's Avatar


GeorgZoeller
02.24.2012 , 12:19 PM | #746 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
We're going to give an update on this topic at the Guild Summit

Morthis's Avatar


Morthis
02.24.2012 , 12:21 PM | #747
Quote: Originally Posted by corbanite View Post
pretty sure the healer would know or maybe he will be just like you and focus on the tank and spam the same button repeatedly

Yes people slack.. Had one idiot playing his PS3 on a progression run... that was his last raid with us.
Honestly if they're melee you probably wouldn't even be able to tell since this game throws damage at melee so much that you wonder why you bothered to bring any.

The point is simply that combat log and meters are valuable tools. They allow raid leaders to identify the issue. There is nothing wrong with these tools, the thing some people take issue with is the way some raid leaders will choose to use them. To me that's like saying a screwdriver is evil because, while it has perfectly valid uses, it can also be used to stab someone to death. Those people who are liable to misuse meters will simply find a different metric to rely on, and they'll misuse that one instead.

I remember when damage meters were first introduced in WoW, I think it was BWL at the time. It was an eye opener, our top dps were doing something like 10 to 20 times more damage than our bottom dps, that's insane. The reason was many of them just essentially afk wanded/auto attacked their way to victory. They couldn't go all out because of threat caps (since we were horde), and instead they went in the extreme opposite direction.

Know what happened when we saw those meters? We did nothing as leadership, we didn't have to. People realized they were screwing around and not contributing, and they changed. Some were never great dps, we still did nothing, because we didn't care about being some top guild that expects top performance from everybody. I'm glad we had those meters though. If people hadn't started trying a little harder because of them, we certainly would have never killed C'thun or gotten anywhere in Naxx.

corbanite's Avatar


corbanite
02.24.2012 , 12:36 PM | #748
Quote: Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
Honestly if they're melee you probably wouldn't even be able to tell since this game throws damage at melee so much that you wonder why you bothered to bring any.

The point is simply that combat log and meters are valuable tools. They allow raid leaders to identify the issue. There is nothing wrong with these tools, the thing some people take issue with is the way some raid leaders will choose to use them. To me that's like saying a screwdriver is evil because, while it has perfectly valid uses, it can also be used to stab someone to death. Those people who are liable to misuse meters will simply find a different metric to rely on, and they'll misuse that one instead.

I remember when damage meters were first introduced in WoW, I think it was BWL at the time. It was an eye opener, our top dps were doing something like 10 to 20 times more damage than our bottom dps, that's insane. The reason was many of them just essentially afk wanded/auto attacked their way to victory. They couldn't go all out because of threat caps (since we were horde), and instead they went in the extreme opposite direction.

Know what happened when we saw those meters? We did nothing as leadership, we didn't have to. People realized they were screwing around and not contributing, and they changed. Some were never great dps, we still did nothing, because we didn't care about being some top guild that expects top performance from everybody. I'm glad we had those meters though. If people hadn't started trying a little harder because of them, we certainly would have never killed C'thun or gotten anywhere in Naxx.
If a DPS is trying I have no problem helping them out.. but yes there are people who will slack and wand their way through for the shinies at the end.

I can also see the problem with them with people using them to bash others. The whole thing needs to be looked at and thought about.

COmbat logs for raids for sure.. FOr PuG groups perhaps a more summarized system would be good.

say directive 7.. it requires each player to do x DPS in order to complete.. anyone who is doing over x DPS gets a green light.. anyone under gets a red light... TBH this is only useful for bosses anyway... Healer/ tank combo is next.. Does the tank have enougth mit/avoidance for the encounter green and red again.. and same with healer.. Just display the lights after the boss is dead or the wipe happens.

SOme lights may be red and you still do it but if all are green then you know all are pulling their weight.

Yes it is work but would surely stop a lot of the rubbish that goes on with spamming the meters and kicking because person x is not doing enougth DPS for a super fast run.

terminova's Avatar


terminova
02.24.2012 , 12:42 PM | #749
Quote: Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
Honestly if they're melee you probably wouldn't even be able to tell since this game throws damage at melee so much that you wonder why you bothered to bring any.

The point is simply that combat log and meters are valuable tools. They allow raid leaders to identify the issue. There is nothing wrong with these tools, the thing some people take issue with is the way some raid leaders will choose to use them.
Raid leaders? Seriously, you just think only raid leaders will have access to them? In WoW everyone had access to everyone else's combat damage, not just raid leaders and not just in raids. You really have to look at the bigger picture, and what impact these things will have as opposed to the small world of raiding.

XOrionX's Avatar


XOrionX
02.24.2012 , 12:48 PM | #750
Quote: Originally Posted by Chewpaco View Post
Are you even listening to what people are saying? You keep coming back to the fact that we are personally afraid of being excluded from content based on a parse.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't want to see you linked parse in every /1 general chat.
I don't want to see the constant bantering back and forth that occurs when it comes to an exposed underperforming member in /1 chat
I don't want to get a group for a flashpoint, after 1 pull, a parse posted and vote kick ensues to kick the lowest performing member and now I have to wait 15 minutes to find a replacement to continue.
I don't want to see "LF1 Sage DPS, must be Balance specced" for an encounter.

In short - I don't want the SOCIAL CESS-POOL these tools create, so that you can have your epeen measuring stick, in a game that doesn't require it, because people are clearing NM content every single day on servers all across America.
Guns can kill people bro... That doesn't mean every gun owner is a murderer.

A parser/log will not "ruin" a community. If you don't like the way a leader is running a raid, don't play with them.. It's really that simple.
"Never tell me the odds!" ~Han Solo