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Cover Fix

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Calimwulf's Avatar


Calimwulf
02.24.2012 , 10:39 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Take Cover is slightly slower than Crouch as it does several things in series

(1) Validate your selected hard cover spot with the server.
(2) Roll you into any selected spot / slide into selected spot if close
if that fails
(3) Crouch

So, at the minimum, Take Cover will add client server latency on top of your personal reaction time and default ability activation latency.

Both abilities offer the same benefit: If an object interrupts line of sight between you and an enemy, you gain cover benefits against the enemy.

For PvP specifically, where you need precise control of your character, I really recommend using Crouch (default: shift-f) over Take Cover. There's definitely cases where Take Cover is very useful (you can bridge large distances by rolling into cover), but when faced with fast moving enemies that know how to play line of sight or obstacles like The Pit's fires, you're better off and faster using Crouch. It may take a little bit to get used to using both effectively, but it definitely helps.
Awesome info and Thanks!

Now something I'm sure everyone else can answer. If I crouch, but I'm not hiding behind anything. I definitely don't get 'cover' bonuses, right?
"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Frigidman's Avatar


Frigidman
02.24.2012 , 10:56 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Calimwulf View Post
Now something I'm sure everyone else can answer. If I crouch, but I'm not hiding behind anything. I definitely don't get 'cover' bonuses, right?
This is something I've always wondered with the cover screen that Gunslinger/Snipers get. When I drop straight into cover screen/crouch on the spot... people like to try and run around 'behind me'. Like it makes some sort of difference. Which from everything I have seen in taking damage, survivability, and dishing damage... it does not.

Even though the 'graphic' is in front of you, it seems to still give you all the benefits of cover even to enemies who are attacking you from behind. However taking hard cover (behind an object) it DOES make a difference if an enemy comes around behind you or not.

As a side note, when you drop to cover screen, they cannot break Line of Sight by simply running to behind you (you turn and shoot them either way).

Be curious to get any sort of official word on "Does cover screen still protect you from rear enemies?"
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GeorgZoeller's Avatar


GeorgZoeller
02.24.2012 , 11:21 AM | #23 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Frigidman View Post
This is something I've always wondered with the cover screen that Gunslinger/Snipers get. When I drop straight into cover screen/crouch on the spot... people like to try and run around 'behind me'. Like it makes some sort of difference. Which from everything I have seen in taking damage, survivability, and dishing damage... it does not.

Even though the 'graphic' is in front of you, it seems to still give you all the benefits of cover even to enemies who are attacking you from behind. However taking hard cover (behind an object) it DOES make a difference if an enemy comes around behind you or not.

As a side note, when you drop to cover screen, they cannot break Line of Sight by simply running to behind you (you turn and shoot them either way).

Be curious to get any sort of official word on "Does cover screen still protect you from rear enemies?"
Hey,

I'll gladly clear this up for you. The official word would be this:

There are two major benefits from cover (in addition to various skills on the Gunslinger/Sniper that make cover an integral part of their gameplay).

(1) People cannot hit you with most ranged attacks while you have cover against them (as in: you are crouched behind an object that breaks line of sight). It does not matter if you used 'Take Cover' or 'Crouch' to get behind the object, the net result is the same. This benefit is available to both the Sniper/Gunslinger and the Scoundrel/Operative and players that remember to take advantage of it can avoid a lot of incoming damage, at least against ranged classes.

(2) Cover screen and Hold Position on the Sniper/Gunslinger Advanced class.

This is a passive ability granted at level 10 upon choosing this advanced class. It creates that small energy shield in front of the player and gives them a 20% ranged defense boost against attacks from any direction.

Ranged defense is used to determine if a target can hit you with a ranged weapon. The higher your ranged defense, the higher the attacker's accuracy must be to compensate. The bigger the difference in your favor, the more likely enemies will miss. (It's a common misconception that 100% accuracy means you hit 100% of the time.) Other factors such as level difference, etc. also come into play of course, but that's it in a nutshell.

Additionally, hold position makes the character immune to interrupts and ability pushback (i.e. activation time increasing when taking damage).

Benefit (1) can be cancelled by simply walking around the target and shooting them in the back (or using melee attacks)

Benefit (2) is active 360 degrees around the target and requires your target to knock you out of cover to be cancelled.

Hope that clears it up.

-- Georg

Chatokun's Avatar


Chatokun
02.24.2012 , 11:37 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Frigidman View Post
This is something I've always wondered with the cover screen that Gunslinger/Snipers get. When I drop straight into cover screen/crouch on the spot... people like to try and run around 'behind me'. Like it makes some sort of difference. Which from everything I have seen in taking damage, survivability, and dishing damage... it does not.

Even though the 'graphic' is in front of you, it seems to still give you all the benefits of cover even to enemies who are attacking you from behind. However taking hard cover (behind an object) it DOES make a difference if an enemy comes around behind you or not.

As a side note, when you drop to cover screen, they cannot break Line of Sight by simply running to behind you (you turn and shoot them either way).

Be curious to get any sort of official word on "Does cover screen still protect you from rear enemies?"
There are a couple other reasons to go behind, if you play a scoundrel/operative/shadow/assassin, you have moves that only work from behind an enemy. Some people will still run behind just from habit. Other reasons could involve not wanting to be knocked back in a certain direction, but if going behind you makes a better knockback for you vs them, then they just don't know. Cover is a unique function that, if not experienced by the player first hand, can be a mystery.

As for whether it provides bonuses, when you drop into cover on gunslinger/sniper, your Defense stat immediately gets 20% bonus, iirc. That bonus is not direction dependent as far as I know, so should always apply. Ballistic dampeners should be the same as well.
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Frigidman's Avatar


Frigidman
02.24.2012 , 12:09 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Chatokun View Post
There are a couple other reasons to go behind, if you play a scoundrel/operative/shadow/assassin, you have moves that only work from behind an enemy.
Yup. I knew that bit... and when I see those kinds of players trying to move around me, I just hop up and pop right back down in cover... thwarting them and going NEENEER as I charge up my aimed shot to throw them back and off that cliff

I never did pay attention to when the cover screen defense buff is applied. Good information on that, thanks.
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BlackMink's Avatar


BlackMink
02.24.2012 , 12:09 PM | #26
That's interesting information, thanks, but I would like to hear more.

I am leveling a Sniper now, and Cover is a rather confusing mechanic, and creates a bit of learning curve for those who use it. There is no in-game information on what exactly it does. So can we get more information here?

I have noticed the 20% defensive boost, and obviously, the 'cover' hotbar that pops up, and of course the ability to use cover only attacks. I have noticed the green shields that pop up over the heads of enemies while behind natural cover.

1. What exactly are the benefits of natural cover? How much is frontal, and how much is 360?

2. How is natural cover better than personal cover?

3. How do these benefits change between standing (firing) and hiding (not firing), for both natural cover and personal cover?

4. Why didn't I have the personal cover shield in the 1-10 range before I became a sniper?

5. If taking cover is a basic core mechanic for these classes, that you are learning to use right from level 1, why do people keep saying that scoundrels and operatives are never ever supposed to take cover? Should they be?

6. Why does natural cover often seem to be difficult to find beyond the starting planets?

7. Are there any plans to improve upon the cover mechanic? Make the benefits clearer to us? Make it easier to use and to learn? Will you be adding more 'blocks to hide behind' throughout the game?

8. What about boss fights? For raid bosses in particular, there never seems to be anything to take cover behind. Any plans to change that?

Frigidman's Avatar


Frigidman
02.24.2012 , 12:14 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackMink View Post
4. Why didn't I have the personal cover shield in the 1-10 range before I became a sniper?

5. If taking cover is a basic core mechanic for these classes, that you are learning to use right from level 1, why do people keep saying that scoundrels and operatives are never ever supposed to take cover? Should they be?
4: Cover screen is only for Sniper/Gunslingers. Not the other AC... so it is not granted until you learn your Sniper/Gunslinger AC.

5: They really shouldn't use cover, because they are a close range 'moving' attack class. Going into cover would negate a lot of their skill effectiveness, as not many cover nodes would actually be right near an enemy to be of any use. Also, they do not get cover screen, so crouching in the middle of open ground, provides no real benefits.
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Wyrdstar's Avatar


Wyrdstar
02.24.2012 , 05:00 PM | #28
I would like to know why when a sniper is about to take a snipe shot the target gets a target mark on them which they can see? Really all it that does is tell them to los . No other range damage comes with such an obvious warning. I don't get a lightening bolt imposed over my character when a sorc is about to force lightening me. I don't get a rocket imposed over my toon when I'm about to get hit by a tracer missile. I don't get a picture of a rock imposed over my toon when a sage is about to hit me with one. Whats the deal with the warning our shots give? Another question why do sniper shots have travel time and gunslingers don't? I've lost a lot of close fights do to this.

Melacon's Avatar


Melacon
02.26.2012 , 11:07 AM | #29
My biggest problem with it is in some operation moments. The .5 sec delay getting out of cover is usually not fast enough for targeting abilities such as foreman crushers rocks are sorno's missiles, unless you move the very instant it shows up, you get hit.

Frigidman's Avatar


Frigidman
02.26.2012 , 12:22 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Melacon View Post
My biggest problem with it is in some operation moments. The .5 sec delay getting out of cover is usually not fast enough for targeting abilities such as foreman crushers rocks are sorno's missiles, unless you move the very instant it shows up, you get hit.
If you're tank is doing their job, you actually shouldn't have aggro to need to run out of cover Blame them! Its always the tanks fault! hehehe.
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