People who ninja for their companions

So his sense of entitlement is valid and important. The other parties is not. Seems kinda contradictory to me.

We had a choice to do what we wished.. Roll or pass or sell.

All the buttons do now is give you the same choice with an extra one which is 'greed' which you will if you neither 'need' the item but can still do with it to sell it.

The need button is there so you can state your claim as a 'need' on that item and thereby have a higher chance of winning it than those rolling greed.


What you want to do is force others to not roll 'need' so it increases your chances even more.

Ah, okay, I misinterpreted when you said "we didn't have a button." I thought you meant there was no choice at all.

I'd like to ask a fairly simply question: Why are you being so rude to Vecke? He hasn't attacked you or your point of view, at least in his previous two posts. He has been very level headed and pleasant, yet you choose to be rude to him and his statements. Why? You have seemingly chosen to take an antagonist approach to a discussion with a person who simply wants to have a civil discussion.

Please note that my above statements have made no judgements about you or your view points. The only thing I have done is express the opinion that you are being rude. That may be offensive to you and you may disagree, but I am fairly certain that if you looked at your own statements a little more objectively, you would see they are rude. If you don't think so, take them to a third party (as I am in this conversation between you two) and ask them if your statements and tone are rude or not. Try taking them to your mother (yeah, hackneyed, but presumably this is a person who helped for your impression of rude versus civil) and see what she thinks. Would you feel appropriate making those statements and arguments in a work place environment? If not, they are probably inappropriate because they are rude.

Just take a breath, and have a civil discussion. There is no need to get angry unless someone is actually attacking your character or your believes unfairly.

I came into this thread thinking there was a basic universal acceptance of NBG rules. While that may have been my personal experience in past MMOs I've played, I'm really thinking that in TOR, it's not the case at all.

So far, I've seen people say that if you roll need on your companion, you're a "jerk", "dbag", "greedy little piggy", and "grade A ******", among other things. No gray area in those statements. These people are saying that action makes you a jerk. Period.

I've also seen it stated that a person rolled Pass on an item, then felt slighted when - after he rolled pass - another person then asked in the group if he could roll need for a companion.

So let's say there's a new player that has decided TOR is going to be his first MMO.

He's leveling along with his companion and groups up for the first time since getting the companion. A piece of equipment drops that his companion needs. Here are some rules this person needs to know:

Even though his companion needs the item, rolling need is improper because his player character is the only one that warrants a need roll. So even though his companion needs it, the proper roll is greed.

Okay. After that, there's an item that he doesn't need, but wants to sell it for credits. Other players want it for their companion. This is an item he wants for money, so he rolls greed. Then the other player that wanted it for their companion gets mad because he should have rolled pass on it, because greed was appropriate for the person whose companion needed it, and pass was appropriate for the person that just wanted it for money.

Now, even if this new player decided he wanted to be prepared so he not only bought the game and read the manual, but even went out and bought the Strategy guide... None of those things would have even hinted to him that in some cases, you roll greed when you need and pass when you want it for greed.

I'm starting to discover that "universally accepted" community loot rules are just a mess to someone that isn't experienced with pugging (and even then it's not always clear).

I've really been swayed on this debate to think the best option is to follow two rules:

1. Always speak up at the onset of the group.

2. If you don't (for whatever reason) speak up at the creation/joining of the group, just assume everyone will roll need for their companions.

No matter what your personal opinion is, I don't see how those two rules wouldn't just solve everything, and would be (IMO) the best rule for the community in regards to loot drama.

Greedy people do greedy things.

I really appreciate that post. Thanks.

A long time ago, I've learned that someone's approach to debate on the forums isn't a real indication of their overall personality, so it never really bothers me. Later, I discovered that this person just "debates hard". I don't agree with his techniques or approach, but when I filtered through the emotion on it, I saw he made some good points.

Edit: I've also learned a long time ago that my tendency to make really long speeches often gives people the impression I'm an insufferable know-it-all. While I'm not, I can see how it would come across that way.

There were no buttons, there you deciding to type '/random' or pass. Or you deciding to sell the item to someone else in the group.

In saying that;

Wow primarily brought the idea of class related items to the genre (there were some before).

This and the fact that WoW brought a much younger audience tot he genre, realized a new emerging problem. And that was, that the etiquette shown before in other games, primarily populated by an older generation, was fast becoming untenable.

The main impetus of NBG came from WoW. It had a much larger audience, which was larger than the combined audiences of previous MMOs. So the NBG system which had been around and used by some, suddenly became the norm.

The NBG system is a worthwhile system if, and only if, everyone complies or conforms with it. If the equilibrium is ever populated and so broken by just one player not conforming/agreeing etc, the whole system falls apart.

But, the NBG system also has its faults. It's major fault has been that people who do agree to it, force their usage of it upon others who might not agree.

Neither party is correct. Neither party is wrong. You just have to play with those who agree to the same principles.

I think it's easy to say you should speak up when you join a group, but a lot of people don't want to be the person to bring it up, thinking it would appear that they are trying to impose their loot preferences on the others, or that they are only interested in grouping for the loot.

Now explain the 'greed' bit please..