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Hybrid Sorcerer/Sage Utility is OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Hybrid Sorcerer/Sage Utility is OP in PvP

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.22.2012 , 08:58 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Keldaur View Post
My teammates doesn't "un-knockback" me. Stop assuming.
Could they not also root/stun the target though? So that knockback is negated?

Keldaur's Avatar


Keldaur
02.22.2012 , 09:01 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by TetraCleric View Post
Could they not also root/stun the target though? So that knockbacks is negated?
If they knockback and root you in place, there is no way to negate a knockback, not even if you got force leap on cd, or your teammates root him.

Do you really give yourself some time before answering ? Could save us an stupid discussion.

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.22.2012 , 09:03 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Keldaur View Post
If they knockback and root you in place, there is no way to negate a knockback, not even if you got force leap on cd, or your teammates root him.

Do you really give yourself some time before answering ? Could save us an stupid discussion.
Well, running 4 meters is alot smaller than having to run 25 or more. Use your head. The way you keep talking, only the other team can CC, and your team has none.

savionen's Avatar


savionen
02.22.2012 , 09:09 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Orangerascal View Post
Fallacy #1

Fallacy #2: Shady Math
Half the skills you listed are pretty worthless in PvP honestly. Zealous Leap is also a 10meter range, it's not really that much of a gap closer, and you can't get it if you're 31pt Watchman.



There's not a ton of internal/elemental skills, true, but a lot of kinetic/energy skills also ignore some or all armor.

Operatives are mostly kinetic/energy if you just look at the skills, but more realistically they're ignoring 30% of your armor whenever they fight you, and then 1/3 of their damage comes from internal.

Mercenary Tracer Missile reduces your armor by 20%, Powertechs pretty much ignore armor.

Half of a Marauder's damage is internal.

Keldaur's Avatar


Keldaur
02.22.2012 , 09:14 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by TetraCleric View Post
Well, running 4 meters is alot smaller than having to run 25 or more. Use your head. The way you keep talking, only the other team can CC, and your team has none.
CC's aren't gap closers, so still it doesn't "un-knockback" me. The only one is a pull, but it's on a big cooldown.

On a group fight, people don't go 30m from you trying to survive leaving their group alone (also i always snare first, so better save the force sprint for something more important), they stand spread but close enough to help each other while focusing one of your teammates, they can keep cc'ing you for an extended period that way while leaving you are rotting till you get full resolve bar (and good players, can make that take a long time using roots, i do it all the time with my gunslinger, i can CC a melee for more than 20 seconds before going full resolve :P).

Crippling their uptime is all you gotta do against sentinels, it's pretty much like wow's warrior on that aspect, but this game has way more knockbacks (gap makers) and different levels on their warzones.

Oh and i am not saying the class is useless, sentinels are right now on a great shape, mostly because most part of the time you don't find opponents who know *** to do, and instead focus you. Rated warzones will open eyes.

mufutiz's Avatar


mufutiz
02.22.2012 , 09:42 PM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Redmarx View Post
Reality check.

If you think sorcs are OP, that means you're a bad player. Luckily for you, the vast majority of players are bad at PVP, and you're just one of them.

Good players know how easy sorcs are to shut down and kill.

If you don't take this on board and deal with it, you will never get better at PVP.

what's your point again? Oh right, you're in good company in this game, just as you said.

keep crusading bro

stupida's Avatar


stupida
02.22.2012 , 11:12 PM | #147
So I really like the effort you've put into this post and as a hybrid sorc myself I do believe that we provide a TON of viability and will be highly represented in ranked warzones however I'm really surprised at this specific argument...

Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Static Barrier Math(PvP)


16k+3.5k(Static Barrier) = 19.5k w/16% mitigation = L (Light Armor)

16k+0 = 16k w/24% mitigation = M (Medium Armor)

16k+0 = 16k w/30% mitigation = H (Heavy Armor)

-------------------------


20k damage(6k internal/elemental) in 20 seconds:

L = 11,760(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 1740 health remaining

M = 10,640(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = -640 health remaining

H = 9,800(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 200 health remaining


40k damage(12k Internal/Elemental) in 20 seconds:

L = 23,520(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -16,020

M = 21,280(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -17,280

H = 19,600(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -15,600

Conclusion:

Now think about this for a second. When will you reasonably be taking 40k damage in 20 seconds? Keep in mind PvE DPS on a stationary target is around 1500DPS for most classes. In PvP you can reasonably expect a player to do ~1k DPS to a human target. For Sorcerers with a single bubble to have less mitigation than the Heavy armored classes with the most physical mitigation in the game two well geared players would need to beat on the Sorcerer for a full 20 seconds without interruption. If a Sorcerer manages to cast a second bubble from having one pre-cast prior to this happening then the Heavy armor is better at an astonishing 80k over 20 seconds. With this in mind it is safe to assume that Sorcerer light armor is more than made up for by Static Barrier.

Static Barrier is not overpowered. It is also not underpowered. With the above information in mind and a lack of offensive dispels in the game we can count Static Barrier as a counterbalance to Light armor. Sorcerers are no squishier than any other class because of Static Barrier and therefore extensive CC compared to other classes is not justified by their Light armor.
The problem here is that you take into account sorc bubble but act as if no other class has skills for the purpose of your numbers. Every other class has a defensive damage reduction ability... The Sorc bubble is a static fixed number of damage absorbed where as the warrior, merc, sniper shields have no limit to the amount of damage that they can prevent as they are % reductions not static numbers. Sorc's rely entirely on their ability to cc & kiting to keep themselves alive where a merc, marauder, jugg can simply pop their shield and in the case of warriors easily reduce 10k+dmg drastically increasing how long they can live. This also assumes there is no healer prolonging the fight(which makes dmg reduction more valuable the more someone is healed and the more dmg they are taking). This isn't a single player game and if you toss 4 people on a marauder to kill them they can easily last 2-4x as long as a sorc with 4 people on them.

I agree that 1v1 a hybrid sorc is extremely difficult to kill but a merc healer for example is IMPOSSIBLE to kill 1v1...

I just think it's way to early to come to any conclusions as we don't have true logs or 8v8 team organized competitive games. I think we will all be surprised by the team compositions that make their way to the top of rankings.
Sith Sorcerer
Malum Factum
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." ~Albert Einstein

Ukita's Avatar


Ukita
02.22.2012 , 11:18 PM | #148
I wish I had screenshotted that sorc outdamaging me by 150k... Fighting nonstop for 14 minutes (voidstar), I got 450k and he got 650k.

Lots of AOE damage ftw...

Rallic's Avatar


Rallic
02.22.2012 , 11:26 PM | #149
Lol this dam post keeps popping its ugly misinformed head up.

Sorcs are not op with cc or any other thing in or out of groups. Sorcs are the support cc class they are ment to have more cc then you.

What is op or broke is the resolve crap.
It needs fixed and all this op blah boa qq qq qq is over.

It should be a 80% stun immunity after the first stun for at least 5 seconds and 100% after the 2nd stun if within 20 seconds of the first.
No more op cc chain stunning from ever single stun/Mez/root spamming sob.

Each class has a stun, root or mez and in the wz every one spams it , brakes some ones and stuns mez or roots not bothering with timing.

Why should they as they know its going to stick 90% of the time.
Do that and no one has op cc . More then one sorc in a group as a hybrid cc spec is pointless , your happy the sorcs in your life are happy .

It's that easy, stop QQing nerf and force them to fix are game.

The longer you qq nerf the longer its going to take to get this game going right

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
02.23.2012 , 02:56 AM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
You use the "OP with a healer" and "OP in 1v1" argument a LOT. Nothing in this game revolves around 1v1 or 2v1(What you're basically saying with the pockethealer bit).
First you have to read what i was respondint to and THEN answer. This way your answer actually has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Quote: Originally Posted by syntxerr View Post
I'll comment on this, since the rest of your post, most of which is simply false information by the way, has been corrected above already:

No, the sorcs don't have another 'big' heal they can cast if they get interrupted. Sure there is a channeled ability that can follow up but what many people cast instead is actually a small heal, pretty much a bit more than half of the big heal, therefore also a second faster to cast. So nope, we don't have to big casted heals.

Apart from that... have you ever fought a Combat Medic? Same procedure. Interrupt one heal, they cast another, very similar one.

The whole point about interrupts not locking out a whole speel category for some time is simply that every class can interrupt and those interrupts are spammable. Many below 10 seconds CD. Imagine they would lock out all healing abilities for 4 seconds. That would be insane. Unless you slap some 1:30 minute cooldown on them.
Uhh, you forgot that scoundrels get big insta-cast free heal. Try to interrupt THAT

Quote: Originally Posted by Theagg View Post
It's a common occurence on my server, especially from early evening onwards, where warzones will be dominated by sorcerors, with 5 or more sorcerors comprising the bulk of the Imperials team for most of the evening.

At that point it becomes quite clear why sorcerors as a group are a problem in warzones. They literally focus fire and from range melt targets into oblivion in mere seconds, then move quickly to the next. En masse like this they can't be effectively interrupted, or damaged since they buffer each other with healing. Trying to burn down just one take a large number of the opposing teams members, time and cooldowns. Which leaves another 4 or 5 to go...

If, as is the case on my server, the majority of those sorcerors are hitting Battlemaster status whilst there are not even any champions never mind Battlemasters of any class on the Republic side, the increased level at which these large groupings of Sorcerors in one warzone burn and fry their way through the opposition becomes even more of a demonstration of something not working correctly. It's despairing to watch how easily a large group of sorcerors can dominate in this way and remain hardly untouched themselves.

Especially when, how shall I put it, the Republic side has a more balanced team, with a wider variety of classes.

And it certainly seems to be putting off people queuing up in warzones here, especially once they notice it's "that time of the day".
You mean just like any other ranged class? And that other ranged classes will melt you MUCH faster than group of sorcs?

Quote: Originally Posted by Keldaur View Post
Good groups, tend to have teammates. And those teammates help each other making harder for melees to DPS.

I mean, you know i am not speaking about 1vs1 because that's a retarded discussion, right ?
What are you trying to do? Solo whole other team, fail and come here to QQ: "teams of other players are OP"

Trivia: did you know you can have sorc/sage in your team too! Whoohoo. Or you can have Vanguard that will pull that pesky sorc back for you to pwn him in 3s. WoW.