This game is TWO MONTHS old.

so as of now, every MMO that comes out must be perfect at launch because "today is year 2012" ???

Certainly. By no means would I suggest to a game developer that they go play WoW for a while and do nothing -else- in such a context. No no no.

Should've been a pre-req for anyone in charge of designing anything to play, to max level and to a reasonably geared state, at least one character in no fewer than three reasonably successful MMO's though.

Edit addition: And then brought to the design table thoughts and ideas on what was good, what was bad, what could work in the premise of the game they're designing and how to not merely take what they liked from elsewhere but to take it and do it better than what they liked about it in some other game.

It really would, for such purposes, be a good experience, and while I don't know what the thinking heads at Bioware have and haven't played...I'd bet a shiny nickel on that they don't spend a lot of their time personally playing MMO's.

Just a hunch; could easily be wrong.

yeah, like i said, i'm not in that crowd. truth be told, I celebrated when LFG first came out and happily pushed that button just about every day. At the same time, there are those that have a very different opinion, and I have read their posts.

Thats why I laugh when people say BW doesn't listen to their playerbase. I always wonder, exactly which playerbase do you want them to listen to.

Yep, and car companies should never have recalls, windows should never crash, and everybody loves everybody because its the year 2012....wait, that doesnt seem right

ya, solaris or aix has never crashed over 1x yrs.

Ok, 1) The game has actually gotten worse since launch. That's a first for me. I played Beeeeuuuuteefleee at launch. Honestly I loved it. Since 1.1 and every patch therafter though my game has gotten more and more unplayable. That's not good.

2) That kind of belief is killing the game industry. Expecting and excusing flawed product as a consumer is disastrous for any industry. I don't know how it evolved as acceptable in the game industry, but it's faulty reasoning at best. It's not like many games are designed in garages anymore out of acts of love for the purity of gaming. I love Bioware but they're a business like anyone else. They typically polish their games more than anyone else these days and I both love and respect them for it, but your attitude of 'expect crap performance from games at launch because they're sooo hard to make' is ******** and basically invites the industry to take advantage of you. You are basically bending over and asking for it. Games are businesses and there's a lot of money in that business, if it hasn't already gaming will soon surpass Hollywood as a cash cow. You say it's ok and you're willing to accept crap product then you will get consistently crappier product.

I understand you're trying to defend something you like, but dude you're doing the exact opposite. You are hurting the industry you are trying to defend by lowering expectations and standards. You lower the bar and people will take advantage of you by phoning it in, sinking lower and lower under that bar while still taking your money.

Hell it used to be mainly MMOs that released buggy with a need for improvement and people cut the developers slack, but where has that gone? At least MMOs were online and somewhat evolving by nature but now even console games are releasing with more and more bugs. Because they're getting harder to make too? Eh, maybe a little, but mainly because people will still pay for unfinished product and even defend it for being released as it is if other people complain. It just invites people who make decisions based on money to lower the bar further. Even if you love a developer you probably don't want to love their marketing or accounting departments who overrule the silly computer geeks when it comes to making money.

Idk how bad things can get before people wake up but I can't think of many other industries where you support production by buying unfinished product and the hope that they'll get around to fixing it for you before moving onto the next thing.

no version of solaris or aix on any machine has EVER crashed even once? sure....

The point is no product in ANY industry is 100% perfect, whether it be design flaws manufacturing errors or what not. Not to say that we shouldn't expect something that runs reaaaaalllly well and has a sound design.

And to head off anybody looking for a reason to pick a fight: I think BW has made some BIG mistakes and dropped the ball on most of the features in this game, so I am in no way a fanboi. I just think perfection is nice to think about and hope for, but realistically its not gonna happen.

That is a perfectly reasonable opinion. In fact, BW has made some decisions that quite irk me. I won't go so far as to call them "BIG mistakes," but they do make me scratch my head and wonder why sometimes.

1x years = EVER? sure, fanboy.

Because games, by definition, aren't important; if you have money to waste on something frivolous then all that matters is that you enjoy it as much as the equivalent amount of candy bars, or roller coaster rides.