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What is the point of Expertise rating on gear?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
What is the point of Expertise rating on gear?

YanksfanJP's Avatar


YanksfanJP
Old 02.21.2012 , 02:32 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by ManCandy View Post
I understand that, but it seems to me that this is a problem that could easily be fixed with proper stats itemization. For example....

PvP:
Gear should be very Endurance heavy with secondary emphasis on core stats (strength, aim etc..)
PvE:
Gear Should Strongly emphasis Core (Aim, Strength) and Secondary (Surge, Alacrity etc) stats.

You then would have two very different gear sets people would want for very different reasons. Your pvp set would give you the survivability you would expect from a pvp set, and the Pve set would allow players who wanted to raid/pve get the most out of the important raiding stats. No raid is going to want a dps with a lot of health that cant push out the numbers another dps could. And while having a big emphasis on core and secondary stats does not necessarily discourage people from pvping, I think one could make the argument that in terms of organized pvp it would be far less competitive.
If you simply stack endurance on PvP gear, then the problem becomes PvE tanks feel that they have to PvP in order to get the gear they need to raid with. You get the same problem, but in reverse.
Vader is so unappreciative. The man saves Vader from death on a volcanic planet, gives him an awesome black suit, hands him the entire galaxy, and tries to get him out of 20 years worth of child support back pay and how does Vader repay him? By throwing him down a shaft..

coerCez's Avatar


coerCez
Old 02.21.2012 , 02:34 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by wavyhill View Post
And if that was intended behaviour then the optimum PvE raiding gear would be a mix of Rakata and BM as well. That is not the case.
Unfortunately, this isthe truth. A person in Full Rakata gear is more powerful, in PvP sense, then a person in Full BM Gear. BW needs to increase the diminishing return on expertise to start around 20%.

wavyhill's Avatar


wavyhill
Old 02.21.2012 , 02:42 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by xxdragonragexx View Post
Not really. MMO is based on improving your character. I will just play guildwars, twink at WoW, or play warhammer free trial if I just want to pvp and not get any progression.
That might be the formula that WoW PvP works under, but it's far for necessary. GW was very successful with the PvP character system and GW2 is also following suit. DAoC also had very little progression once you got over certain RR humps. Not to mention that grinding for PvP power progression was one of the things that utterly broke Warhammer.

Quote: Originally Posted by coerCez View Post
Unfortunately, this isthe truth. A person in Full Rakata gear is more powerful, in PvP sense, then a person in Full BM Gear. BW needs to increase the diminishing return on expertise to start around 20%.
It would also be nice if they would work on equalizing the set bonuses. It would take a whole lot of expertise to convince mercs/commandos to drop the 2-peice 15% Tracer/Grav crit bonus they get from PvE gear. Meanwhile, it feels like every set bonus my sniper has on both PvE and PvP gear is utterly useless. Restoring an 11-th of my resource bar once ever 2 mins? A 3s extension on an AoE that is horribly ungainly to use because of the 3s cast time? Yeah that's real neat.

ManCandy's Avatar


ManCandy
Old 02.21.2012 , 02:44 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by YanksfanJP View Post
If you simply stack endurance on PvP gear, then the problem becomes PvE tanks feel that they have to PvP in order to get the gear they need to raid with. You get the same problem, but in reverse.
That is correct if you are only taking into account endurance and comparing them side by side, but as I said before by itemizing raid gear appropriately and properly utilizing your secondary stats in this case defense, shield chance and absorb your effectively take a tank with less health than his pvp counterpart and ramp up his mitigation so he would be taking far less incoming damage than a pvp geared tank.

The trick obviously would be in determining exactly how much of the secondary stats to allow the pvp or pve gear sets to obtain. Then compare your tanks side by side again.

Kagek's Avatar


Kagek
Old 02.21.2012 , 03:30 PM | #35
We probably wouldn't see anyone in PvE gear doing PvP on a consistent basis if it wasn't for the fact that PvP gives much easier access to rating 136 and 140 weapons.

xxdragonragexx's Avatar


xxdragonragexx
Old 02.21.2012 , 03:36 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by wavyhill View Post
That might be the formula that WoW PvP works under, but it's far for necessary. GW was very successful with the PvP character system and GW2 is also following suit. DAoC also had very little progression once you got over certain RR humps. Not to mention that grinding for PvP power progression was one of the things that utterly broke Warhammer.
They are following the WoW model because it is the model that makes the most money. They are not following guild wars because no gear progression means no retention or no subscription. They are certainly won't follow daoc simply because daoc didn't even put a dent on Everquests subscription. This game is a PvE game with pvp put into it as an after thought. It is the same with WoW. PvE gear progression comes first or calculated first then they put in the pvp gear equivalent.

Quote: Originally Posted by ManCandy View Post
That is correct if you are only taking into account endurance and comparing them side by side, but as I said before by itemizing raid gear appropriately and properly utilizing your secondary stats in this case defense, shield chance and absorb your effectively take a tank with less health than his pvp counterpart and ramp up his mitigation so he would be taking far less incoming damage than a pvp geared tank.

The trick obviously would be in determining exactly how much of the secondary stats to allow the pvp or pve gear sets to obtain. Then compare your tanks side by side again.
Give it up. Your idea sucks. Everyone keeps telling you that but you are not listening.

sheisty's Avatar


sheisty
Old 02.21.2012 , 03:39 PM | #37
Simple solution, make PvP gear only usable in PvP zones, make PvE gear only usable in PvE zones. Problem solved. then your PvP gear can have whatever stats they throw at it and not affect the PvE game, and vice versa.

You want to PvP? Get PvP gear. You want to PvE, go raid with your guild.

ManCandy's Avatar


ManCandy
Old 02.21.2012 , 03:42 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by xxdragonragexx View Post
Give it up. Your idea sucks. Everyone keeps telling you that but you are not listening.

Hey way to think outside the box! Two words.... tunnel vision

xxdragonragexx's Avatar


xxdragonragexx
Old 02.21.2012 , 03:43 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by sheisty View Post
Simple solution, make PvP gear only usable in PvP zones, make PvE gear only usable in PvE zones. Problem solved. then your PvP gear can have whatever stats they throw at it and not affect the PvE game, and vice versa.

You want to PvP? Get PvP gear. You want to PvE, go raid with your guild.
That is basically what we have now, isn't?

sheisty's Avatar


sheisty
Old 02.21.2012 , 03:53 PM | #40
No, because there are many Champion geared PvErs doing well in PvE as well as full Pve geared out people in full Rakata destroying in PvP.