Chapter One: OF COURSE it's the Endgame!

That's only if you also assume they play only one character.

I have played every day since release, some days many hours, and I don't have a 50 yet. I do have a 47, 43, 37, 36, 32, etc.

Why? I enjoy leveling. I like it better than the endgame. I very much enjoy character progression, and at endgame, that progression is either too slow (most MMOs) or over too fast (from what I've read about TOR's endgame).

While leveling, my characters regularly and frequently get gear upgrades, and ability upgrades.

In almost every MMO it's the endgame I like the least, because if you want to continue character progression, you have to jump on this once a week treadmill, and hope the RNG likes you that day.

Really, what this post comes down to, is the old journey vs the destination argument. There's no correct answer for that, except to say, to each his own.

So, for this player, it's certainly NOT all about the endgame.

MMOs are about having a persistent world, a world that exists independent of you. If there's no persistent world, then it might as well be a single player game, or a Diablo-style multiplayer romp

Leveling a character, then throwing it away when it hits 50, is the opposite of persistence. You don't need an MMO for this, you could just play an RPG.

It's not "to each his own." You're taking the one of the defining features of the MMO, persistence, and throwing it away. Okay, but that just strikes me as crazy.

I respectfully disagree with you on this one. The reason I say that is because IF the leveling content isn't good enough, fewer people would bother to stick around for the end game. This happened to me with Rift. I had absolutely no desire to level to cap in that game because it was so unoriginal. I think I made it to level 14 before I said "well, I'm not going to do this all over again in a game that's not as good as its primary model." So I didn't, and I quit.

I think Bioware did the right thing in devoting a good portion of resources to the leveling experience. Perhaps a strong leveling experience is what is needed to attract new customers to the MMO market. I think TOR has a lot of life left in it still and it's going to be exciting to see where Bioware takes it. 1.2 is going to be a huge deal, let's hope that it delivers and shows us what we can expect our money to buy us.

Furthermore, from this point forward, the majority of the new content that will be released is going to be end game focused. The leveling experience is already there (although i definately feel that it could use some variety added.) I don't think we can fault Bioware for trying to be different in making the leveling experience more rewarding and engaging. I think they succeeded and with a bit more work, leveling an alt will be a joy rather than a chore.

First off its calls end game. You know stuff to do why the game is over and u are sitting around for the next big updates to the game. Also one easy way to fix this is well make the game part last long with slower xp. That way there is more hours in the Game and well less hours in the End game . I mean it is called a end game

Agree with this. Posts like the OP just want the game to adapt to them, rather than them adapting to the game.

People say SWTOR is like WoW, people say SWTOR is not enough like WoW. Actually it's bit like WoW in some respects but it's its own game.

There are 8 unique, long stories in this game, with a lot of variation. Why you wouldn't want to experience all of them is a mystery to me.

The only downside is the same places you're going through, but by no means do you have to "do all the side-quests again", you can mix and match with each toon. Class quest plus zone quest, class quest plus side quests, class quest plus heroics, class quest plus Flashpoints, class quest plus space combat, or any combination of these.

By the time you've played through several classes and gotten a feel for what you really enjoy playing, THEN is the time to settle on one toon, and by then BW are likely to have pumped up endgame content to a more satisfactory level.

Of course the endgame has to be fleshed out, but never in the history of themepark MMOs has an MMO ever released with a fully-fleshed-out endgame. That comes with time, it comes with devs getting a feel for what people want.

The amount of tantrumish footstamping on these boards is sickening.

"I want it all NAAAAOWWW or else I shall POST and POST and POST!!!!"

Yuck.

Well, someone's figured it out.

My belief is that its all in the levelling curve.
This one aspect of the newer mmos since 2004. It hasnt as you said always been like that but it has been like that since 2004

When you increase the speed to cap all other aspects of the game pretty much become meaningless

You talk about crafting and yes it is ruined in this game and useless why? because why would anyone buy a piece of gear that will be useless the day after? Or that they can get a better piece with daily commedations on the planet they are on?
Crafting is ruined because of the rate of levelling
Basically with as fast as you can get to cap in games today the crafting should start at 50

Now what if it took longer to level.
All crafting becomes viable

I really dont want to write a novel about this
But if companies continue to make games where in literally days you can achieve max level then they will in essence always suck because so much goes into the levelling processes as far as development and time and its a blink of the eye for most people, and in turn there is no end game because all the time gets put into the levelling process which takes no time at all

My toons make a killing on the GTN. Striking the credit expense balance between repairs, crafting missions & training can be a bit of a challenge. But that's not a bad thing, though I find that GTN sales essentially fund my crafting.

The leveling up part is the player's choice. After level 20 it takes 4 or 5 hours per level of straightforward gaming (exploring, farming, side quests, playing along with the VA quests, etc.) to level up. That is unless the player either power levels (skipping most everything for the sake of gaining levels) or uses speed hacks. While the game allows for power leveling, that play style is an ill fit. The game accomodates it but wasn't designed for it.

WoW has become the king of speed (portals everywhere, BoA heirlooms, DF & RF for insta-gearing, 400% movement rates with epic mounts & guild perk bonuses, etc.) whose rushing people into end game was somehow ordained as an industry standard. The game shrunk because of it. BioWare stated that they studied other MMO's successes and failures. I'm sure choosing to focus on not going down that road came as a result of those studies.

Of course it isn't the endgame.

How long will I spend 1-50? Couple of months, at least. Started playing in December, 1 character at 41, 2 at 22. How many days will I spend at "endgame"? 0. *if* I ever reach endgame I'll start a different game until the next expansion.

"endgame" is a holding pattern. It's entire purpose is to slow down players who got through the real content too quickly to keep them from dropping subs. And, of course, most of them haven't even SEEN most of the content. As far as I'm concerned, Bioware has already spent too MUCH time on worthless endgame content.

For some reason, some small (and yes, it is small... but vocal) percentage of the population see end-game as the actual "Game" in MMORPG's. The fact that there hasn't yet been a successful game that is just "endgame" style gameplay should be indicitive of the fact that it actually isn't THAT popular.

Correction. Once you finish the game, things get boring fast. To which I say. DUH. Level (i.e. being 50) is immaterial. The game finishes once you finish your class questline(s). (which happens to happen around lvl 50)

How fun was ME2 after you finished it? How fun was pretty much ANY game after you finished it? No fun at all.

I, personally, have no problem with people dropping subs once they finish... (though I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe anybody has actually finished all 8 class questlines) If they've raced through the content to get to the boring end game (a.k.a. gear grind) content, without actually taking the time/intent to enjoy the actual content... That's there own stupid fault. They'll probably get bored quickly with whatever they pick up next and possibly come back to enjoy the actual content that is here.