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Winning The Pit early,

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Winning The Pit early,

FRISKI's Avatar


FRISKI
02.20.2012 , 12:21 PM | #1
Not only do you not get any sort of bonus for managing to destroy the other team and finishing the game in impressive timing - sometimes less than 5 minutes, but you also get punished for it by the amount of valor granted? So people are actually encouraged to not cap the last one to get a full game and farm medals while the result of the game is clear? That's not much fun for either teams.
Discuss.

Grubfist's Avatar


Grubfist
02.20.2012 , 12:33 PM | #2
How is "finishing in under 5 minutes" a valor loss?

You get into the next one that much faster.

Squiddish's Avatar


Squiddish
02.20.2012 , 12:35 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Grubfist View Post
How is "finishing in under 5 minutes" a valor loss?

You get into the next one that much faster.
Your average MMO player, especially self titled "real pvpers", has about the intellect of an adolescent gorilla. Thus, they are incapable of evaluating the merits of getting into the next game faster, and only see *** LITTLE NUMBERS at the end of the game they won so quickly. Instant gratification is all their little brains can handle
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LeggoMyMuoio's Avatar


LeggoMyMuoio
02.20.2012 , 12:35 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Grubfist View Post
How is "finishing in under 5 minutes" a valor loss?

You get into the next one that much faster.
The problem is people just start playing "keep away" with the ball so they can farm valor because the next WZ you get into might be full of fresh 50s on your team.
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Lerdoc's Avatar


Lerdoc
02.20.2012 , 12:43 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Squiddish View Post
Your average MMO player, especially self titled "real pvpers", has about the intellect of an adolescent gorilla. Thus, they are incapable of evaluating the merits of getting into the next game faster, and only see *** LITTLE NUMBERS at the end of the game they won so quickly. Instant gratification is all their little brains can handle
Funny thing is, if they get a 15 minute game they earn 80 comms in, they still think its more then three games lasting 4-5 minutes giving you 40-50 comms.

FierasElvandar's Avatar


FierasElvandar
02.20.2012 , 12:47 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Grubfist View Post
How is "finishing in under 5 minutes" a valor loss?

You get into the next one that much faster.
You have to factor in queue times. If you get instant queues, then yes.

If you have a 5 mins queue time between matches, then no, its not likely better valor to win fast.

Grubfist's Avatar


Grubfist
02.20.2012 , 12:50 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by FierasElvandar View Post
You have to factor in queue times. If you get instant queues, then yes.

If you have a 5 mins queue time between matches, then no, its not likely better valor to win fast.
Good point. My server's very balanced so our queues are typically quite speedy. Then again, there aren't very many quick games either.

Nangasaur's Avatar


Nangasaur
02.20.2012 , 12:52 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Squiddish View Post
Your average MMO player, especially self titled "real pvpers", has about the intellect of an adolescent gorilla. Thus, they are incapable of evaluating the merits of getting into the next game faster, and only see *** LITTLE NUMBERS at the end of the game they won so quickly. Instant gratification is all their little brains can handle
It's why I never understood the quitter mentality that has them leaving matches that are getting badly destroyed (their team losing badly). Chances are the match will be over very quickly, and they'll get easy quick valor and comms. And they won't get into a new match before that losing one ends anyways.
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Crazysithslayer's Avatar


Crazysithslayer
02.20.2012 , 01:11 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Lerdoc View Post
Funny thing is, if they get a 15 minute game they earn 80 comms in, they still think its more then three games lasting 4-5 minutes giving you 40-50 comms.
If I'm on the winning side I get 100-110 comms. Also your little calculation makes it sound like you win 100% of the matches with insta-queue. On some servers winning matches are rare since that next wz will probably be a BM premade facestomping you for 15 minutes resulting in 50(quick match)+ 30 (getting facerolled)=80 comms.

patatt's Avatar


patatt
02.20.2012 , 01:22 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Squiddish View Post
Your average MMO player, especially self titled "real pvpers", has about the intellect of an adolescent gorilla. Thus, they are incapable of evaluating the merits of getting into the next game faster, and only see *** LITTLE NUMBERS at the end of the game they won so quickly. Instant gratification is all their little brains can handle
So, actually, you've just insulted yourself, Mr. Little Brain...

If you ACTUALLY look at the numbers, you see that the OP is pretty correct in his statement. It is more reasonable in a large amount of situations to farm your opponents for valor until the timelimit runs out, for not only the winning team, but the losing team as well.

I'm going to give you a couple theoretical examples to show you when and where this is or isn't the case.

First, you have the perfect server. Queue times are basically zero, PvP is unaffected by exploits, and matches are always a full 8v8. Even if you're running premades, which affects how long it takes for you to form a group, wait for everybody to be ready, hop in vent ect., you've got a pretty quick finish to start of next warzone time period, and in this case, it is more reasonable for you to win as early as possible, take your 800 valor in 5 minutes, and move on to the next game. Also, for BMs, all you care about is the win, generally, so this would also be your optimal outcome.

5 minutes per game at roughly 800 valor (which is the amount of valor you recieve for winning those quick games) gives you a valor per hour rate of ~10k per hour.

Now if you were to take those games and farm for another 10 minutes, you would generally gain at least 1500 valor per game, including SOME (i'd say about 5, in this situation) of the medals you would recieve.

So, with instant queues, you have 4 games per hour, at 1500 per game, which equates to 6k valor per hour.

In this case, the perfect case, farming is not optimal.

Also note that since you're winning 100%, your opponents must be losing 100%, and are gaining what, 500 per loss? 500x12 games per hour = 6k per hour for insta losses, and 1000x4 = 4k per hour for farmed losses.

So, let's go to a less perfect server:

Say your queues take 5 minutes. Or more likely, say you're republic, and your queues inherently take 5 minutes... (sorry pubs, but it's true...) At this point, you're taking 5 minutes to get into a game, 5 minutes to complete a game, and 800 valor recieved.

This takes longer for your BMs to get their wins, but those leveling their ranks get a valor rate of 800 every 10 minutes, or around 5k valor per hour. I'm rounding up on these numbers, btw...

In the situation where you farm these games out however, you're finishing 3 games per hour, with 1500 valor per game, giving you 4.5k valor per hour.

So, on a server with 5 minute queue times, winning every game by farming will only give you 500 less valor PER HOUR (this is key), than winning games 5-0. This is assuming you win every game.

On the other hand, if you're on the losing side of this thought experiment, when you get quick winned for your 500 valor, you get 500x6 = 3k valor per hour, and when getting farmed, you get 1000x3 = 3k valor per hour.

So, AS THE LOSING TEAM, 100% OF THE TIME, you get an equal amount of valor on a nonperfect, 5 minute queue time server. That's only 1.5k less than if you win by farming and 2k less per hour than if you win quickly.

If you're still paying attention, you're either suprised by how oddly these numbers are beginning to work out for the do farm argument, or you've already heard this argument, as these are both perfect situations for you winning 100% of your games.

So let's say you win 50% of your games on a perfect server. Averaging the valor between valor-win/hour and valor-loss/hour gives you an 8k/hour rate for insta wins, and a 5k/hour rate for insta losses. On a 5 minute queue server, winning 50% of your games, you get an 8k/hour rate for quick wins, and a 7.5k/hour rate for farmed wins.

We're getting awkwardly close to that point where farming becomes optimal.

At 15 minute queue times, you gain:
-2.4k/hour with insta wins (100% win rate)
-3k/hour with farmed wins (100% win rate)
-1.5k/hour with insta losses (100% rate)
-2k/hour for farmed losses (100% rate)

And,
-1.8k/hour with insta wins/losses (50% win rate)
-2.5k/hour with farmed wins/losses (50% win rate)

On a server where it takes you 15 minutes to join a Warzone, which is definitely not unheard of, it is more valuable to farm your opponents, and EVEN TO BE FARMED, when it comes to earning valor.

Needless to say, battlemasters hate these servers.

So what you see here is that downtime kills your valor per hour rate, but you gain more in those situations by farming your opponent. Now, considering that some people don't insta-queue all day long, you find that for THE GENERAL MASSES, valor farming is by far the best way to get valor in huttball. Also, you generally get a lot more medals for farming, which can up the rate considerably (10 medals/game at 50 valor + 2 games per hour = 1k more valor per hour on the worst servers, and +2k valor on the best servers, whereas quick wins do not get as many medals).

So, Mr. Little Brain... It seems you didn't do your homework.

The system in place encourages farming for the general masses. It needs to be fixed.

tl;dr:

Maths + SWTOR = Valor Farming.