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Attacking republic in Open World is griefing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Attacking republic in Open World is griefing?
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Gwal's Avatar


Gwal
02.20.2012 , 09:30 AM | #301
Quote: Originally Posted by Boarg View Post
Tagging a boss with no intention of actually killing it solely for the purpose of denying other players is exploiting game mechanics.

"Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players."

Tags on mobs in this game frequently don't drop right away, even after the person/group with the tag die.
What are they doing wrong?

This is a war. You don't win a war by letting your enemy do as they wish!

This is the type of "no one must be denied anything" WoW dev mentality that has ruined the MMO genre.

What those guys did is possibly the most significant battle in SWTOR history. And that kind of says it all for this game and why the PvP is mediocre.

Deviating from the gear treadmill needs encouragement not punishment.

Boarg's Avatar


Boarg
02.20.2012 , 10:25 AM | #302
Quote: Originally Posted by Gwal View Post
What are they doing wrong?

This is a war. You don't win a war by letting your enemy do as they wish!

This is the type of "no one must be denied anything" WoW dev mentality that has ruined the MMO genre.

What those guys did is possibly the most significant battle in SWTOR history. And that kind of says it all for this game and why the PvP is mediocre.

Deviating from the gear treadmill needs encouragement not punishment.
Mob tagging is not a game mechanic designed for harassing other players in PvP. It's designed to straighten out who gets credit for a kill. Tagging without intent to kill is an exploit; it's griefing. It's an abuse of game mechanics.

If you want to fight the opposing faction, fight them. Don't cheese mechanics that aren't supposed to have anything to do with combat and have zero basis in realistic tactics.

Most of all, don't cry on the forums for getting caught breaking the rules.

Radiohex's Avatar


Radiohex
02.20.2012 , 10:33 AM | #303
I have never rolled on a PvE server because I like the challenge posed by this exact sort of thing.

But there is pretty obviously something wrong with 8 republics being unable continue their game because 2 imperials STILL think its funny after a few hours. Trying to break up a raid group may not technically be harassment, but it is low, and goes against the spirit of the game, and I am glad this particular BW employee acted ethically by stopping it (after reasonable period, people ARE supposed to PvP).
Leap and the net will appear.

Pawe's Avatar


Pawe
02.20.2012 , 10:38 AM | #304
I don't need screenshots to believe it happened. I'm guessing that the OP did get a warning.

But...

1) I doubt he is telling the whole truth. If his wanted to camp a spawn for 2 hours to prevent republics from taking it down, go for it. I have done this before. Find a zone with Empire NPCs, and help out any NPCs fighting Republic players. Is it annoying, sure. Should it be allowed, yes. Has it happened to me, of course. I have done this several times and not gotten any warning. We might be missing the part of the story where a heated exchange took place in General chat, or they camped the Republic rez zone, ect.

2) Tagging a boss so they can't get it is wrong, and I believe abusing game mechanics. Kill them, wait for them to engage the boss and help out by taking out their tank or healers, that's fine. I don't think tagging should be done though. I'll agree Bioware should fix this, and I know it will be done till they do.

All in all, I do think this game is way too carebear focused. I've played MMO's since EQ, SWG, and even Runescape. They all had real penalties for death in PvP, be it item loss, exp loss, zone kickouts, corpse run, ect. WoW broke that, and with MMOs becoming the crazy popular machines they are the vast majority of MMO "gamers" and just gamers in general became idiots that companies have to pander to.

Icecrypt's Avatar


Icecrypt
02.20.2012 , 10:59 AM | #305
Of course its griefing if your camping these people and ruining for them. Your just being cowards and ruining some other peoples fun. Of course its griefing.
"You assumed no force could challenge you. And now… finally, we have returned. I am destroying you. All trace of you. There will be nothing left."

UnderatedNoob's Avatar


UnderatedNoob
02.20.2012 , 11:03 AM | #306
Quote: Originally Posted by Oteefo View Post
"Open world" PvP is one thing.......but denying another group of players access to content is another....

I would suspect there is a balance they are working here....

Did your group proceed to slay the world boss?

....or were you just killing off the republic players so they could not?
IMO is doesn't matter. I agree with the OP.

There were two guys trying to down Tatooine's world boss. I was around lvl 23. It was a level 40 and another level 30 something. Obviously I couldn't kill them, but I sure did get the boss to kill them... by stunning the healer and distracting them from their plan.

It's a PVP server. If you want to kill a world boss in peace, go to a PVE server. Or else you take the chance of this.

OP - I'm republic, but I respect the fact you did not let your enemy down that world boss. It's a war right? In a war we don't let our enemies grow stronger by acquiring better weaponry / gear.

drdarpa's Avatar


drdarpa
02.20.2012 , 11:10 AM | #307
Quote: Originally Posted by Ziegler View Post
So here is the scenario.

Belsavis World Boss is up. Republic guild is trying to take him down. A group of Imperials attack the repubs.....repeatedly til they abandon the boss.

Imperials get warnings for griefing.


I could have sworn this game said it had open world PVP....and I also could have sworn I chose to play on a PVP server.

So I would like the devs to clarify this.

And a little bit of rant here.
Bioware, you have never been big on the whole PVP thing, so much so that you had to co-opt developers from Warhammer to do it for you. The above example only shows your lack of knowledge about PVP.
A couple of things to enlighten you.
First, open world pvp in the gaming community means.....pvp anywhere, anytime.
On a PVP server, a common practice is denying the opposing faction areas, entrances, bosses....you know...it's almost like....oh I dont know....a WAR...like STAR WARS!!!!

I can deal with bugs, I can deal with slow patches and fixes. (you have been good with patches)...I can deal with alot of things. But one thing I cant stand is a mommy game company babysitting a PVP server.

So I would like some clarification.
Is it ok on a PVP server to actually attack the opposing faction in an organized fashion to deny them areas, quest bosses, or anything else? Can my guild decide to wage war on Belsavis and attempt to deny to the whole world to the republic?

If I kill someone and they come back to the area, am I allowed to keep killing them til they give up? If not, what's the magic number before I am griefing?



One pissed off PVP'er.

This is sad. 2 of my alts are repub, and imps are more than welcome to come spawn camp me, gang-zerg me, gank, area control, area lock, kill my quest mobs, or make playing the game as difficult as possible for me at any point in time while I am logged in on a pvp server. If I don't like it and want it to stop, I should reroll pve, or be more strategic on how and when I play.

Whatever noob(s) reported you is(are) a moron(s) and needs quit playing on a pvp server. In my opinion, you went a little light on them. PvP servers create a different type of player because of the amount of awareness the player needs to have to be successful. If Bioware is punishing players for participating in PvP as this OP did, they should be ashamed, and we should be made aware so that we can decide if we can follow the rules or not. OP has every right to be pissed and outraged.

Yo Bioware, lets get your stance on this and indicate as clearly as possible what is and isn't allowed so that I can know whether or not I need to find another game to play.



Pawe's Avatar


Pawe
02.20.2012 , 11:10 AM | #308
Quote: Originally Posted by Icecrypt View Post
Of course its griefing if your camping these people and ruining for them. Your just being cowards and ruining some other peoples fun. Of course its griefing.
I'm not going to argue against being a coward, or camping and running, but it isn't greifing in a game warning sense.

You can be morally against doing that, but ganking lowbies, camping open world bosses, camping datacron locations should all be allowed in open world PvP. It sucks when it happens to you, but there are ways to avoid it if you are getting ganked. Go somewhere else, get on an alt, or...if you are getting ganked by a 50 in a lowbie zone, get on your 50 and start camping him. Odds are if they are ganking lowbies they aren't that good at PvP, and will run away as soon as they get some real fighting.

If you don't want the chance of getting ganked, don't roll on a PvP server. I'm not about to say that it is by any means a nice thing to do, but it should be allowed and this is a game. Killing any other player in any situation isn't "nice".

If they think that open world PvP is "ruining their fun" they shouldn't be on a PvP server. I have never once gotten ganked in an open world setting and gotten mad, if anything I get excited. "OH man, this just got real". I enjoy open world PvP both when being the attacker and attackee(Correct word?)

Moral of the story, yes, this game is for carebears.

drdarpa's Avatar


drdarpa
02.20.2012 , 11:21 AM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by Icecrypt View Post
Of course its griefing if your camping these people and ruining for them. Your just being cowards and ruining some other peoples fun. Of course its griefing.
Likewise, the guy that reported the OP should be reported and punished for ruining the OP's fun. The CSR that reprimanded the OP should be fired for ruining the OP's fun.

If you don't want to have a potentially negative result of an encounter with an enemy faction player, you roll pve. It has nothing to do with ruining someone's fun. It has everything to do with UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU signed up for. Why is this so difficult for some players to understand? You roll pvp, enemy players will be making it difficult for you to achieve success in the game.


Encountering difficulty resulting from interaction with other players at any point in the game is the rule of PvP. If you do not have fun with that, or understand that, you should never roll on a pvp server.



Gwal's Avatar


Gwal
02.20.2012 , 11:22 AM | #310
Quote: Originally Posted by Boarg View Post
Mob tagging is not a game mechanic designed for harassing other players in PvP. It's designed to straighten out who gets credit for a kill. Tagging without intent to kill is an exploit; it's griefing. It's an abuse of game mechanics.

If you want to fight the opposing faction, fight them. Don't cheese mechanics that aren't supposed to have anything to do with combat and have zero basis in realistic tactics.

Most of all, don't cry on the forums for getting caught breaking the rules.
Just kill the enemy problem solved....

Just like pew pewing your enemy down.

This was the day for me to decide whether to subscribe or not. The actions against world pvp and members of community that are so opposed to meaningful pvp has decided the issue.

Have fun in WoW with lightsabers. If that's what people want they don't deserve better.
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