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Design decisions and why the game engine hurts TOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Design decisions and why the game engine hurts TOR

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
02.20.2012 , 09:16 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Mrs_Murder View Post
One particular thing that bothers me is how the fleets are designed.
1) They're instanced, and you cannot travel to the other faction's fleet. Which means no epic faction vs faction like we had in "that other game". Bored? Let's get a group of 200 people and raid the other faction's main city!

2) Its very design is anti-social. There's no gathering point, people are scattered all over the place. And for the RPers, you can't even sit down in the cantina or play games there. No one hangs out in the cantina.

I'd like to see them replace fleets with open world cities, where we'd have housing and a huge marketplace in the center, where players could also engage in multiplayer games (poker, chess, arm wrestling etc).
I think this would fix a lot of the boredom people are experiencing, and it would feel more like an MMORPG rather than a single-player online game.
Hm. Mass PvP games - such as Warhammer Online - use considerably less detail per character - only a fraction of the vertices, clothing detail, effective texture pixels.

The design is not strictly anti social. The fleets are the social gathering points. On a fleet you trade, look for mates for your flashpoints and operations have access to all kinds of special item vendors and get your speeders. Along with that, the cantinas are gathering points by default, because you get rested XP (which you will later transform into actual XP) for every second being there.

JumperPenn's Avatar


JumperPenn
02.20.2012 , 09:23 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
Hm. Mass PvP games - such as Warhammer Online - use considerably less detail per character - only a fraction of the vertices.

The design is not strictly anti social. The fleets are the social gathering points. On a fleet you trade, look for mates for your flashpoints and operations have access to all kinds of special item vendors and get your speeders. Along with that, the cantinas are gathering points by default, because you get rested XP (which you will later transform into actual XP) for every second being there.
None of that is social or really encourages or enables social activities. Buying stuff and gaining rested XP aren't social nor do either really enable, encourage or facilitate socialization. If there were actual things to do like games in cantinas, or swoop bike races to watch/bet on, those would help.
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Terko_Koslah's Avatar


Terko_Koslah
02.20.2012 , 09:26 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by mangarrage View Post
All I can say is omg

I cannot be further from your experience and I certainly cannot disagree with you more

First off let me say congratz on being yet another wow fanboi with no experience whatsoever of anything that preceded it.
You comparison are just ridiculous to me and in fact I laughed out loud and quite a few times.
You do know that wow cut and pasted raiding from EQ and EQ2 right?
You do realize that there was less then 10 encounters in wow that were anywhere near what would be considered difficult. Off the top of my head I can think of 6. Not raids mind you individual mobs

PVP comparing the wz in wow to these is just laughable. AB = huttball oh man lol

In addition the fact that you do not think you are in a minority when it comes to FPS and the like, you are
If 1.5 million people play the game and 700k are having issues you are the minority and I highly doubt the number is anywhere near that or even 1/3 of that, so yea the minority

I run a compter that I bought and changed the video card to a 550 (which isnt that good of a card at all) and I have no issues with fps at all. I think my low was around 40 ever
Comparing this game to a game that can run on a Tandy 1000 or a Timex sinclair is just horrible

Only thing I can take away from this is Ilum, which is in fact horrible, but it is horrible for 2 reasons 1) faction imbalace and 2) player base
BW is not responsible for what people choose as their side or class and they are not responsible for the playerbase not creating pvp other then exploiting traiding kills or swapping control points. The player base did that. Until you can create a pvp experience where the player base cannot exploit a system, everything is going to fail
Open world pvp is this game isnt a BW issue its a playerbase issue
You have to take the dailies out of the game, the biggest reward, or the only reward should be killing other players, everything else should be removed, no chests, no awards for doing daily WZ just straight up pvp with a zonewide bonus for the side with less people
I've had some problems with graphics with some fog effect or such when the camera just suddenly starts responding differently to my mouse commands. That is bad optimization in my opinion.

Also: Problems are still problems whether they are experienced by a majority or minority.
"Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is." -- Jedi Master Yoda

Mrs_Murder's Avatar


Mrs_Murder
02.20.2012 , 09:28 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
Hm. Mass PvP games - such as Warhammer Online - use considerably less detail per character - only a fraction of the vertices, clothing detail, effective texture pixels.

The design is not strictly anti social. The fleets are the social gathering points. On a fleet you trade, look for mates for your flashpoints and operations have access to all kinds of special item vendors and get your speeders. Along with that, the cantinas are gathering points by default, because you get rested XP (which you will later transform into actual XP) for every second being there.

How are the fleets social gathering point? Its design separates people from each other.
Trading = "/2 WTS this and that" or stare at the GTN -- which is in its own little corner of the fleet.
Look for mates/flashpoints = "/1 LFG D7HM"
Special item vendors = in their own little corner of the fleet, and you only hang out here for five minutes while you figure out what to buy for your planet commendations while you're leveling up.
Cantinas = You don't need rested xp once you're 50, and you only hang out in rested areas when you're logged out. NO ONE hangs out in the cantina on my server. Ever. Why would they?
Everone (150-200 at primetime) is either clustered by the PvP mission terminal or are staring at the GTN.
And like JumperPenn said; Buying stuff and gaining rested XP aren't social nor do either really enable, encourage or facilitate socialization.

And as for graphics, I'd be glad to give up some of the graphics if it meant SWTOR would become a proper MMORPG with at least a social gathering area, housing and minigames.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
02.20.2012 , 09:28 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by JumperPenn View Post
None of that is social or really encourages or enables social activities. Buying stuff and gaining rested XP aren't social nor do either really enable, encourage or facilitate socialization. If there were actual things to do like games in cantinas, or swoop bike races to watch/bet on, those would help.
They bring people together. You can't force people to act social that must come on their own, but you can bring them together in one place where the slow paced stuff takes place. As opposed to actual combat where you can't be distracted.

lightertripod's Avatar


lightertripod
02.20.2012 , 09:30 AM | #96
Sad to say most if not all of the OP post is true

the engine is awful

biggest issue for me with the engine is the viewing distance for world PVP cannot count the times I have jump on what I thought was a 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or even 4vs 6 and found my self in a mass of 20-30 people

actually suprised its not been mentioned by more people
Toya
Legion of Death

miliways's Avatar


miliways
02.20.2012 , 09:30 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Voidskull View Post
Saved up for a new PC purely for TOR
That was very foolish.

If you had bought a new PC for WoW you'd be just as dissapointed.

MMORPGs have to worry about an entirely different environment than say, FPS or racing games (which push your graphics to the limit).

Expecting an MMORPG to push your system and show next-gen rendering techniques is unrealistic. Besides, MMORPGs are all about multiplayer, so they purposely target a lower system spec so they can have more players.

You set yourself up for failure. You're expecting the unrealistic.

Mrs_Murder's Avatar


Mrs_Murder
02.20.2012 , 09:30 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
They bring people together. You can't force people to act social that must come on their own, but you can bring them together in one place where the slow paced stuff takes place. As opposed to actual combat where you can't be distracted.
Isn't that what I'm suggesting? One giant marketplace where people can hang out TOGETHER, as opposed to the current state where people are scattered all over the place and there's nothing to bring them together in social activity. The fleets do not bring people together in any way. Just because people are in the same zone doesn't mean it brings them together.
I'm not even a roleplayer (I play on a PVP server) and even I find this to be a necessity.

wifeaggro's Avatar


wifeaggro
02.20.2012 , 09:34 AM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Drewser View Post
You have been wrong with every prediction you have made so far.
Neither you our I can be proven correct at this point. And in all honesty we will probably never know. BW will never release their subscription numbers no MMO does except blizzard.
At the next qrtrly investors call we will get a rough estimate when they anounce the quarter. but my best guess is TOR will have 45 % burn off . that sucks for a 90 day mark but it no where indicates tor is a failure i suspect that it will be a major success. Im glad you like the game Drewser honestly i do and i hope you enjoy it for a long time.

As for me i find it very rudimentary and feature lacking , they made a good single player game with MMO features. The engine is horrible as the OP states. I can load up a full DX10 MMO with high res textures .siege in a completely destructible enviroment with over 45 people PVPing and get 65 FPS. i load up TOR and zone onto the fleet and get 20 FPS and massive render hiccup with 20 people standing infront of me doing nothing but standing. It is not my system Drewesr befor you go all Coolaid fanboi on me

Intell 990x OC 4.2 mhz liquid cooled

590 gtx 3 gigs video

8 gigs 1333 Ram

Win 7 ultimate x64

No reason to be hostile to those that are posting in hopes the Devs will fix the glaring weakness's of this game so we might all enjoy it. Glad your having Fun though and love it the way it is
I

Deirhese's Avatar


Deirhese
02.20.2012 , 09:35 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Azzras View Post
To the OP:

Your complaints are not the engine. You just used that title to catch people's eye so they would read your review of the game...not the engine.

A massive wall of text also ensures most will not read it, thus you get your instant gratification of people agreeing with you even though they didn't even read it.

If you had to learn medicine, would you expect it to be in a few sentences or a massive wall of text covered over many books?

If something requires that much explaining then it is kind of hard to condense it for those with short attention spans. Either read the whole thing or skim and try to get a pretty good idea before arguing with it. I don't see how his (OP) well thought out post implies he wants instant gratification. Also I read the whole thing by the way.