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Dual-spec Coming and no changing advanced classes!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Dual-spec Coming and no changing advanced classes!

Mamono's Avatar


Mamono
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:40 AM | #351
Quote: Originally Posted by Akirator View Post
Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.

"should not have gotten out of vanilla"? You do realize dual-spec was introduced in patch 3.1 which was after wrath released. And when did the subs start coming down from their high, thats right, in WRATH.

Not saying dual-spec itself hurt wow, but it was part of the whole "making the game easier" that you yourself admitted was hurting wow.
You are right about it being 3.1. My mistake, but you are wrong about it ruinse the game.
It does not make it more easy. It does not give you the gear for free to have dual-spec. It does not make the boss have less HP or that the boss is more easy to fight to have dual-spec.

Dual-spec is convinient. It does not make anything more easy.
It tuck me 1 month to LvL up to Lvl 50. I dont want to waist 1 month game time on my Alt doing the same quest over again. On a class that I alredy have.
If I want to reroll I want to reroll an other class, not the same class.

Dual-spec made nothing easy. Dual-spec does not play the game for you either if you think that.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:45 AM | #352
Quote: Originally Posted by Mamono View Post
How do you know that? Do you have some inside infomation and knowledge about how they made the system?

But I guess it will not come atm. In a year or two maybe, but not now. My words are written to blind readers atm. But remember what i say now that in a few years Advanced Class will be of the past.
Why would I need inside information?

Right now the different ACs are like different classes, as I said above. Sentinel uses a different resource than Guardian, different type of armour, can dual wield unlike the Guardian etc. It does not make sense to switch between them. Makes even less sense to switch between Scoundrel (a predominantly melee class unless you heal) and Gunslinger (an entirely ranged class).

For this to even remotely make sense, they have to remove ACs entirely as switching between them is just stupid. As of right now, it would be a mockery of the entire game design. I'm not one to predict how it will change or not change in the future but WoW still has classes that can't do all three of DPS/Heal/Tank, right?

Akirator's Avatar


Akirator
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:48 AM | #353
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post

Right now the different ACs are like different classes, as I said above.
Actually as far as the devs are concerned, they ARE different classes. They've even come out and said they consider them as such. Which is why they have no plans for allowing us to change AC.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:49 AM | #354
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Why would I need inside information?

Right now the different ACs are like different classes, as I said above. Sentinel uses a different resource than Guardian, different type of armour, can dual wield unlike the Guardian etc. It does not make sense to switch between them. Makes even less sense to switch between Scoundrel (a predominantly melee class unless you heal) and Gunslinger (an entirely ranged class).

For this to even remotely make sense, they have to remove ACs entirely as switching between them is just stupid. As of right now, it would be a mockery of the entire game design. I'm not one to predict how it will change or not change in the future but WoW still has classes that can't do all three of DPS/Heal/Tank, right?
Have you played WoW or that? Just because your arguments seem fairly invalid when compared to those.

Let's look at a Druid in WoW. You can choose the specs of Resto where you use Mana as a resource and gear with Spirit Stats. Or you could choose to go Feral, more specifically you could go Cat Form in which you use Energy as a resource and gear with Agility stats.

Two very different specs, with different gear and different resources and different spells. Yet we can dual-spec it.

It's not that different.

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:53 AM | #355
Quote: Originally Posted by Mamono View Post
Dual-spec is convinient.
This is why you are wrong.. No MMO should be concerned with convenient..

Dual speccing undermines the idea of even having a spec to begin with.. Why have a spec when we can just change at will.. Why not just get rid of the talent tree altogher?? Like WOW is about to do..

Dual speccing has contributed to the downfall of WOW.. But you will never believe it because you are still concerned about convenient.. Would you like the game to play itself for you to?? That would be even more convenient??

WOW doesn't have the story this game has.. So?? if it is more important for you to have a 2nd set of quests to do for a little over half of your leveling.. Then perhaps this game is not for you.. This game has story.. I will gladly do the quests over again for the story.. It isn't like we aren't going to be doing dailies and stuff?? I can't tell you how many times I did the same quest in WOW.. Countless times.. I have no clue why you are even worried about doing the same quests here.. It is like complaining that your car has wheels..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

[.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:56 AM | #356
Quote: Originally Posted by chaosdefined View Post
Have you played WoW or that? Just because your arguments seem fairly invalid when compared to those.

Let's look at a Druid in WoW. You can choose the specs of Resto where you use Mana as a resource and gear with Spirit Stats. Or you could choose to go Feral, more specifically you could go Cat Form in which you use Energy as a resource and gear with Agility stats.

Two very different specs, with different gear and different resources and different spells. Yet we can dual-spec it.

It's not that different.
Well, in that case, WoW's system is stupid and I hope they won't copy it. And you still can't change from being a Druid to being a Mage?

Also, is there a WoW class that you can dual spec to be either melee or ranged? Because that's what you'd do with changing from Shadow to Sage or from Scoundrel to Gunslinger.

Akirator's Avatar


Akirator
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:58 AM | #357
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Well, in that case, WoW's system is stupid and I hope they won't copy it. And you still can't change from being a Druid to being a Mage?

Also, is there a WoW class that you can dual spec to be either melee or ranged? Because that's what you'd do with changing from Shadow to Sage or from Scoundrel to Gunslinger.
Druids go Feral for melee, or Balance for casting/ranged. Shamans go Elemental for casting/ranged, or Enhancement for melee.

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
Old 02.20.2012 , 05:59 AM | #358
Quote: Originally Posted by chaosdefined View Post
Have you played WoW or that? Just because your arguments seem fairly invalid when compared to those.

Let's look at a Druid in WoW. You can choose the specs of Resto where you use Mana as a resource and gear with Spirit Stats. Or you could choose to go Feral, more specifically you could go Cat Form in which you use Energy as a resource and gear with Agility stats.

Two very different specs, with different gear and different resources and different spells. Yet we can dual-spec it.

It's not that different.
We can also use the example of the Warlock and the Mage.. Both use mana, both are ranged DPS, both wear cloth, and both use the same stats..

Is that not the same??

Blizzard designed their characters and classes the way they want.. Why can't Bioware?? Why can't we just accept their definition??

So his arguement is valid.. It shows that you can't hold either game to a standard.. Blizzard has never allowed class changes.. It is safe to say that Bioware should do the same.. I don't know why we have to argue about it..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

[.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
Old 02.20.2012 , 06:00 AM | #359
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post

Dual speccing has contributed to the downfall of WOW..
Source and relevant data please, otherwise this is just your own personal opinion.

Also, WoW is not getting rid of talent trees. They have been redesigned. You still pick a main spec and an off-spec, you get the talents involved in that spec it's just that in future instead of picking points in a tree, you will choose certain abilities to use.

Personally I'm not keen on the new talent tree for WoW. However that really has nothing to do with what we're discussing here.

We're asking for the ability to dual-spec advanced classes, and currently you're arguing that it's too difficult because the AC's are too different. What we're trying to point out is that no, they're not. It's like arguing a Resto Druid and a Feral Druid are completely different classes and can in no way be dual-specced.

Akirator's Avatar


Akirator
Old 02.20.2012 , 06:03 AM | #360
Quote: Originally Posted by chaosdefined View Post
Source and relevant data please, otherwise this is just your own personal opinion.

Also, WoW is not getting rid of talent trees. They have been redesigned. You still pick a main spec and an off-spec, you get the talents involved in that spec it's just that in future instead of picking points in a tree, you will choose certain abilities to use.

Personally I'm not keen on the new talent tree for WoW. However that really has nothing to do with what we're discussing here.

We're asking for the ability to dual-spec advanced classes, and currently you're arguing that it's too difficult because the AC's are too different. What we're trying to point out is that no, they're not. It's like arguing a Resto Druid and a Feral Druid are completely different classes and can in no way be dual-specced.
And in that he's wrong, it's not too difficult or becuase they're too different. It's a design decision. And what you're asking for isn't dual-SPEC its dual-CLASS...which I am adamantly against.