The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

I take backlash, and 20/21 gets insta cast whirlwind too.

It's crazy how little so many sorcerers know about their own class, if you're taking a little bit of improved dot damage over increased burst damage, 10 seconds off force speed, and the most insanely overpowered low-cooldown cc in the game then I really don't know what to tell you.

Unless you're just blindly trying to top the dps meters then 20/21 > 13/28

i agree with the above sentiments from previous posts.

That's horrifically imbalanced.

Yes taking all that CC will drop your DPS by about 7-8% but it's worth it. In PvP that sort of difference doesn't matter if you're gaining as much as you do with the CC heavy hybrid. The forked lightning variant even has more burst and AoE than a standard 0/13/28 build. It's just far better unless you're fighting a raid boss.

I really do appreciate you doing the spreadsheet math for me though. I don't have excel so I couldn't do it myself. I think you're being fairly reasonable in your argument but I also think that you're underestimating the power of CC and overestimating the effect of 8% sustained damage in any PvP scenario.

Please return to page 81 and read my lengthy detailed post describing exactly why the CC capabilities the OP identifies are NOT game-breaking.

No other class really needs it. Sorc is the squishiest class in the game. There is no way to show exactly how much damage a Sorc/Sage is taking, but with their squishy-ness, it's certainly needed.

Also, the ones that are putting up impressive healing numbers are probably running the 7/13/21 hybrid, which is specifically geared towards self-healing, and has output on par with the other hybrids.

In fact, 7/13/21 does almost as much damage as the defensive version of 13/28, albeit most of it dependent on AOE damage (1258 and 1268 respectively).

[/quote]Show me a class that has that much given to them and people wouldn't scream op as much.[/quote]

I suppose you mean like scoundrel and commando, both of which have the capacity for good self-heals and high damage. Or any tank spec, because protection is functionally (for the target) the same mechanic as healing... better actually, because they never take the damage, and the tank can mitigate that damage better through incoming heal buffs.

Yes, clearly - it has nothing to do with actual math and game mechanics. It's only because all the Sages in the world, none of which actually USE those talents (or if they do, are gimping their dps) want to keep them around.

This thread was about the 20/21 sorcs, but everyone with half a brain realizes just how bad that spec is.

Flog a dead horse all you like, check the thread with the title "we all know sorcs are OP but which is the weakest class" where everyone who posts says sorcs/snipers are the easiest classes to kill.

I think in order to have an effective argument how class balance. We need to profile the person making the claims it's "Over powered" what I quoted is listed in his original post. Now he throws the "This isn't Dragon Ball Z" I think that's rather harsh. No one said it was. Obviously this is a slander to people who like or enjoy anime.

Secondly, he speaks that's he's either 2nd of 3rd top warrior on his server. May imply an inflated ego or self worth. Now from the screen shot provided. List his as the top DPS in a single Huttball. This again point's an "entitlement"

Lastly, this claim he has made has been de-bunked several, several times and the majority of the people posting don't agree for his reading's to be accurate. I think it would not be in the game's best interest to try to "re-vamp" an entire tree in the SECOND month of the game being released.

This is just what I gather.

I didn't say they CAN only take, I basically said anyone with half a brain SHOULD only take. Your spec has less burst then mine, a "little bit of dot damage" = 20% more dot damage on 10 dots every 15 seconds, along with 30% surge rating on all crit dots and death field.

10 seconds off force speed is the only advantage to your spec and isn't worth spending 7 points to get.

You might be able to run away and live, but what use is that? I can possibly do that extra bit of damage needed to kill that healer.

I've defended against personal attacks far too many times. I'm not going to do it again just for you. Go read the thread and find the other 20 times people have used personal attacks.

Read the top part of the original post. I've updated it to show exactly how much damage you might lose in a completely standstill single target situation. In PvP the 0/23/18 build might actually be MORE damage than the fully damage focused 0/13/28 build because of how the build boosts Chain Lightning damage and the chances of not having an few incidental AoEs from Chain Lightning is stupidly low. To top it off the 0/23/18 build has more burst than any of the other specs.

The forked lightning one is a dps loss over other 20/21 builds if you are dot-tabbing correctly.

I will tell you from playing 20/21, 3/7/31, and 13/28 that of the three, 20/21 is my least favorite. It's certainly the least dps, and doesn't feel quite right as a ranged dps because of the ways you have to use the cc offensively to take full advantage of them.