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Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

shama's Avatar


shama
02.17.2012 , 02:19 AM | #1001
Quote:
Using abilities with indirect targeting (such as area of effect abilities) will no longer cause players to be flagged for PvP if a PvP-flagged player from the opposing faction is within the ability’s range, and the ability will have no effect on the PvP-flagged player.
That is good news, thank you. But it does leave some questions unanswered:

- Will indirect targeting of beneficial effects (AoE heals/buffs that affect all group members) still cause non-consensual PvP?

- Will attempting to res a dead PvP player now tell you that you can't res them unless you flag? Or will you still be flagged in a non-consensual way

- Will attempting to direct heal/buff a PvP player now tell you that you can't unless you flag? Or will you just be flagged

- Will attempting to direct damage a PvP player now tell you that you can't unless you flag? Or will you just be flagged, straight away, and so you can get the drop and surprise a PvP players?

- Did you follow the advice of implementing a new option in preferences for auto-flagging, so that the people who like it as it is can keep it that way (and the various scenarios mentioned above will auto-flag you) - and the rest of us can *never* be put into PvP without having physically typed /pvp
Quote: Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision

Charliff's Avatar


Charliff
02.17.2012 , 02:22 AM | #1002
Quote: Originally Posted by AmberGreen View Post
Hi everyone. Thank you all for your patience and reports. We wanted to post in this thread to let you know that we have made this change with patch 1.1.4, which is now live on Public Test Server! You can read the patch notes here.

o/''\o
Thank you!!

VarnieTsk's Avatar


VarnieTsk
02.17.2012 , 02:32 AM | #1003
Quote: Originally Posted by AmberGreen View Post
Hi everyone. Thank you all for your patience and reports. We wanted to post in this thread to let you know that we have made this change with patch 1.1.4, which is now live on Public Test Server! You can read the patch notes here.

o/''\o
Yes! Thank you, thank you.

Rochand's Avatar


Rochand
02.17.2012 , 03:40 AM | #1004
Quote: Originally Posted by AmberGreen View Post
Hi everyone. Thank you all for your patience and reports. We wanted to post in this thread to let you know that we have made this change with patch 1.1.4, which is now live on Public Test Server! You can read the patch notes here.

o/''\o

Nice, but I do have the same question as the poster bellow you.

If a PvP flaged player hits one of the mobs that are agro on me once and let it still be agro on me, will I still get flagged for PvP if I kill it or is that also fixed?
CE VIP
Bioware: Please address this issue. PvE players on PvE servers should NEVER be forced into PvP through the actions of greifers! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=159167

BrenMcGuire's Avatar


BrenMcGuire
02.17.2012 , 03:54 AM | #1005
Quote: Originally Posted by Tenneth View Post
I have yet to experience this myself, but it appears that this isn't intended. I'd submit a bug report in-game thoroughly explaining the situation and why you believe it should be fixed.

This could potentially be one of the biggest issues in the game, and I'm sure if it hasn't been fixed yet, it's because it hasn't come to the attention of Bioware.

I'll try to reproduce the problem and submit a report myself, but I suggest you do as well, in case I can't get the same results as you are.

THIS IS NORMAL!!

Not a bug.

It's a feature that stops pvp abuse by non-flagged players damaging or healing other participants in combat.

As with all AOE attacks, be careful when and where you use them.

That is all.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
02.17.2012 , 04:03 AM | #1006
Quote: Originally Posted by BrenMcGuire View Post
THIS IS NORMAL!!

Not a bug.

It's a feature that stops pvp abuse by non-flagged players damaging or healing other participants in combat.

As with all AOE attacks, be careful when and where you use them.

That is all.
It isn't normal and has been changed, read the posts above and on previous pages.

Sykomyke's Avatar


Sykomyke
02.17.2012 , 11:09 AM | #1007
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
It isn't normal and has been changed, read the posts above and on previous pages.
Let's review what you just said for a second in a realistic situation.

Player A is part of the Empire. He likes ad-hoc pvp so he flags himself even while questing in hopes that some poor republic fool attacks him. He loves the thrill of it, but he still rolled on a PvE server because he doesn't want to PvP *all the time*.

Player B is part of the Republic. He avoids PvP and does not normally flag for it unless in warzones.

Player C is part of the Empire. He is player A's friend and likes to quest with Player A, but doesn't like to flag for PvP like his friend.

Now that I've set the characters, let's set the stage:

Player A is questing on Alderaan with Player C in Glarus Valley near the world boss. Player A is flagged (as above); Player C is not. Player B happens to check on the world boss and notices Player A flagged. Player A notices player B and how he isn't flagged.

In most games: If Player B uses an AoE attack that hits both PvE mobs and PvP (Player A) mobs, he will be flagged for combat. Apparently BioWare doesn't like this: But let me be very clear. In WoW this is how it works. You use AoE around flagged enemies? You get flagged. Most people understand this. It's understood that you need to be careful around enemies who "taunt" you into attacking them by hoping you make a mistake with AoE abilities.

Now under the developer response above; you'll see new exploits arising thanks to your whining.

Now if player A and player B are both fighting each other, if player C casts an AoE heal (let's say Revivification) he WILL NOT get flagged if he manages to cast it on friendly targets who are not flagged. Congraulations!!!! You have now whined about one thing and as a result now you are allowing flagged pvpers to be healed by non-flagged players. What do you do? You can't kill the healer because if he is smart, he can continue to AoE heal without getting flagged if he casts it carefully enough.

This is what we commonly refer to as an exploit; except the ironic thing is BioWare caused it by catering to the whines about people getting flagged by their own AoE abilities.

Honestly it should boil down to this: If you see someone flagged and you don't want to fight, don't use AoE abilities. Alas my faith in BioWare is decreasing everyday by catering to these people who don't want to be held accountable for their inability to pay attention to their surroundings.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
Sith Empire

Benfynyn's Avatar


Benfynyn
02.17.2012 , 11:14 AM | #1008
Quote: Originally Posted by Rochand View Post
Nice, but I do have the same question as the poster bellow you.

If a PvP flaged player hits one of the mobs that are agro on me once and let it still be agro on me, will I still get flagged for PvP if I kill it or is that also fixed?
^^This
Quote: Originally Posted by JovethGonzalez View Post

After some investigation, it appears that there was some miscommunication between teams and this patch note was not intended to be included in this last patch.

HanoverFist's Avatar


HanoverFist
02.17.2012 , 11:28 AM | #1009
Quote: Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
Let's review what you just said for a second in a realistic situation.

Player A is part of the Empire. He likes ad-hoc pvp so he flags himself even while questing in hopes that some poor republic fool attacks him. He loves the thrill of it, but he still rolled on a PvE server because he doesn't want to PvP *all the time*.

Player B is part of the Republic. He avoids PvP and does not normally flag for it unless in warzones.

Player C is part of the Empire. He is player A's friend and likes to quest with Player A, but doesn't like to flag for PvP like his friend.



Honestly it should boil down to this: If you see someone flagged and you don't want to fight, don't use AoE abilities. Alas my faith in BioWare is decreasing everyday by catering to these people who don't want to be held accountable for their inability to pay attention to their surroundings.

You forgot Player D, who never Pvp's at all.

You forgot stealth.

So your stance is that PvP ers should be free of accountability then ,that its perfectly fine for them to forcibly interfere with PvE'ers fun and its all on the PvE'ers back because they don't pay enough attention to invisible things.

Thanks for reading the thread and straitening us all out.

Sejia's Avatar


Sejia
02.17.2012 , 11:45 AM | #1010
Hello everyone,

This thread has surpassed our 1000 post threshold and has been recreated to continue this discussion. Please feel free to move your conversation to the new thread.

Thanks!