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Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?
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_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.10.2012 , 03:06 PM | #1
Let me start by saying I hate PvP - So I play on a PvE server to avoid it. I am also not flagged for PvP.

So why on earth can I accidentally catch a wandering enemy player in my AoE and automatically get set into PvP mode?

Not only do I not want this (Hence finding a PvE server!) but it takes me by surprise and I am dead before I even realise what is going on! Then I have to wait 5 minutes for the flag to wear off, during which time I can't go and quest because I know there are invisible enemy players around?

How did this feature make it live?

Even worse I hear is that if a PvP flagged friendly walks into your heal patch then you are flagged for PvP automatically! This is absurd and needs changing quickly because as I am getting higher in level I am seeing more and more PvP flagged players and I do not want to be restricted to single target attacks for fear of accidentally hitting someone.

I can forgive the bugs but this is going to ruin the game for me if it isn't changed soon.
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

AmberGreen's Avatar


AmberGreen
02.16.2012 , 02:16 PM | #2 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hi everyone. Thank you all for your patience and reports. We wanted to post in this thread to let you know that we have made this change with patch 1.1.4, which is now live on Public Test Server! You can read the patch notes here.

o/''\o
Amber Green | Live Services Specialist
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Sejia's Avatar


Sejia
02.17.2012 , 11:42 AM | #3
Because the previous thread has exceeded our normal threshold for thread length, we've started this new thread for the community to discuss the topic of indirect targeting abilities flagging players for PvP.

As always, we ask that the community keep the following things in mind when responding:
  1. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks
  2. Please stay on topic.
  3. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.
  4. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it.
  5. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post.

Thank you and enjoy the discussion!

knightkrawlur's Avatar


knightkrawlur
02.17.2012 , 12:13 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by _Darkstar View Post
Let me start by saying I hate PvP - So I play on a PvE server to avoid it. I am also not flagged for PvP.

So why on earth can I accidentally catch a wandering enemy player in my AoE and automatically get set into PvP mode?

Not only do I not want this (Hence finding a PvE server!) but it takes me by surprise and I am dead before I even realise what is going on! Then I have to wait 5 minutes for the flag to wear off, during which time I can't go and quest because I know there are invisible enemy players around?

How did this feature make it live?

Even worse I hear is that if a PvP flagged friendly walks into your heal patch then you are flagged for PvP automatically! This is absurd and needs changing quickly because as I am getting higher in level I am seeing more and more PvP flagged players and I do not want to be restricted to single target attacks for fear of accidentally hitting someone.

I can forgive the bugs but this is going to ruin the game for me if it isn't changed soon.
Sadly most MMO developers add some sort of system like this. They know they can't provide PvE content as fast as players can chew threw it, so even on PvE servers they leave the option to PvP when you run out of content.

So you end up two types of PvP players on a PvE servers.

1) PvE players that have run out of content or just become bored with the content. So they try their hand at PvP for something to do. These players are usually decent people and respectful of others. They are the type of players that won't attack someone 10+ levels lower than them and will not engage someone who is half dead and in the middle of fighting a MOB.

2) Griefers that can't hack it on a PvP server. The griefers love the flagging system and they are the first ones to defend the current way things work. They are borderline sociopaths that thrive on un-fair fights. They don't want a fair fight, they want a hand full of PvE mobs helping, they want to surprise you when you least expect it.

Both types of players exist in every game out there but still developers seem to put little or no thought into the impact of griefers.

I used to buff people, but I don't anymore. I used to heal random people, but I don't anymore. I've been forced to check each group member when I join a group to ensure they are not set for PvP, if they are I leave the group.

I've turned on name plates so I can identify opposing faction members, if I see them I disengage from combat and go do something else to avoid them. And yet still I sometimes get flagged for PvP, which almost always ends the same way. A group of 2 or more opposing faction players slaughtering me while I'm in combat with mobs doing quests.

Even after they get their jollies beating up someone who CANNOT win the fight, I have to spend time out of my day waiting to get un-flagged. Because not even death makes it go away.

I am a PvE player, I play on a PvE server. I do not want to PvP, ever. I have been killed by opposing players and yet I have NEVER entered a PvP area or flagged myself for PvP in the game. The current system is not totally consensual as advertised.

Although their system was very buggy at the start, the Rift system seemed to take care of this. Why can't I just get an option I can toggle for "Never flag me for PvP" and just don't let me heal/damage anyone that is?

VarnieTsk's Avatar


VarnieTsk
02.17.2012 , 01:06 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by knightkrawlur View Post
Sadly most MMO developers add some sort of system like this. They know they can't provide PvE content as fast as players can chew threw it, so even on PvE servers they leave the option to PvP when you run out of content.

So you end up two types of PvP players on a PvE servers.

1) PvE players that have run out of content or just become bored with the content. So they try their hand at PvP for something to do. These players are usually decent people and respectful of others. They are the type of players that won't attack someone 10+ levels lower than them and will not engage someone who is half dead and in the middle of fighting a MOB.

2) Griefers that can't hack it on a PvP server. The griefers love the flagging system and they are the first ones to defend the current way things work. They are borderline sociopaths that thrive on un-fair fights. They don't want a fair fight, they want a hand full of PvE mobs helping, they want to surprise you when you least expect it.

Both types of players exist in every game out there but still developers seem to put little or no thought into the impact of griefers.

I used to buff people, but I don't anymore. I used to heal random people, but I don't anymore. I've been forced to check each group member when I join a group to ensure they are not set for PvP, if they are I leave the group.

I've turned on name plates so I can identify opposing faction members, if I see them I disengage from combat and go do something else to avoid them. And yet still I sometimes get flagged for PvP, which almost always ends the same way. A group of 2 or more opposing faction players slaughtering me while I'm in combat with mobs doing quests.

Even after they get their jollies beating up someone who CANNOT win the fight, I have to spend time out of my day waiting to get un-flagged. Because not even death makes it go away.

I am a PvE player, I play on a PvE server. I do not want to PvP, ever. I have been killed by opposing players and yet I have NEVER entered a PvP area or flagged myself for PvP in the game. The current system is not totally consensual as advertised.

Although their system was very buggy at the start, the Rift system seemed to take care of this. Why can't I just get an option I can toggle for "Never flag me for PvP" and just don't let me heal/damage anyone that is?
My sentiments, exactly! Especially the part I highlighted yellow.

I'm happy that they're changing the AoE flagging, that was the most abused, but would love to see it taken that little step further to address the issue of griefers tagging a mob in a group you're fighting & flagging you.

I want to be able to guarantee that I'll *never* get flagged......ever.

Rochand's Avatar


Rochand
02.17.2012 , 01:08 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Sykomyke
Now if player A and player B are both fighting each other, if player C casts an AoE heal (let's say Revivification) he WILL NOT get flagged if he manages to cast it on friendly targets who are not flagged. Congraulations!!!! You have now whined about one thing and as a result now you are allowing flagged pvpers to be healed by non-flagged players. What do you do? You can't kill the healer because if he is smart, he can continue to AoE heal without getting flagged if he casts it carefully enough.
Read what you wrote.

Based on this
Quote:
Using abilities with indirect targeting (such as area of effect abilities) will no longer cause players to be flagged for PvP if a PvP-flagged player from the opposing faction is within the ability’s range, and the ability will have no effect on the PvP-flagged player.
Player A = healer
Player B = damage dealer

Scenario A:

Player A = not flagged
Player B = not flagged

Both are same faction


Player A does a targeted heal on Player B = Player A not flagged + Player B not flagged and healed

Player A does AOE heal with Player B in group = Player A not flagged + Player B not flagged and healed

Scenario B:

Player A = not flagged
Player B = flagged

Both are same faction

Player A does a targeted heal on Player B = Player A flagged + Player B flagged and healed

Player A does AOE heal with Player B in group = Player A flagged and Player B flagged and healed

Scenario C:

Player A = not flagged (Republic)
Player B = flagged (Empire)

Player A does a targeted attack on Player B = Player A flagged + Player B flagged and damaged

Player A does an AOE attack while not having anything or a mob in target while Player B is within AOE area = Player A not flagged + Player B flagged and unharmed


What kind of exploit do you see???
It's normal game mechanics on PvE servers.
CE VIP
Bioware: Please address this issue. PvE players on PvE servers should NEVER be forced into PvP through the actions of greifers! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=159167

gurugeorge's Avatar


gurugeorge
02.17.2012 , 01:13 PM | #7
I don't understand why this is even an issue. Surely it's clear that people who choose a PvE server do not want PvP in any way, shape or form unless it's strictly consensual?

Even as someone who enjoys open world PvP and wouldn't dream of rolling on a PvE server, I absolutely respect that decision.

And as an overall fan of the game, this aspect of it mystifies me. I thought abusable mechanics were the first things devs tried to avoid?

DrBrydon's Avatar


DrBrydon
02.17.2012 , 03:11 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by knightkrawlur View Post
Sadly most MMO developers add some sort of system like this. They know they can't provide PvE content as fast as players can chew threw it, so even on PvE servers they leave the option to PvP when you run out of content.

So you end up two types of PvP players on a PvE servers.

1) PvE players that have run out of content or just become bored with the content. So they try their hand at PvP for something to do. These players are usually decent people and respectful of others. They are the type of players that won't attack someone 10+ levels lower than them and will not engage someone who is half dead and in the middle of fighting a MOB.

2) Griefers that can't hack it on a PvP server. The griefers love the flagging system and they are the first ones to defend the current way things work. They are borderline sociopaths that thrive on un-fair fights. They don't want a fair fight, they want a hand full of PvE mobs helping, they want to surprise you when you least expect it.

Both types of players exist in every game out there but still developers seem to put little or no thought into the impact of griefers.

I used to buff people, but I don't anymore. I used to heal random people, but I don't anymore. I've been forced to check each group member when I join a group to ensure they are not set for PvP, if they are I leave the group.

I've turned on name plates so I can identify opposing faction members, if I see them I disengage from combat and go do something else to avoid them. And yet still I sometimes get flagged for PvP, which almost always ends the same way. A group of 2 or more opposing faction players slaughtering me while I'm in combat with mobs doing quests.

Even after they get their jollies beating up someone who CANNOT win the fight, I have to spend time out of my day waiting to get un-flagged. Because not even death makes it go away.

I am a PvE player, I play on a PvE server. I do not want to PvP, ever. I have been killed by opposing players and yet I have NEVER entered a PvP area or flagged myself for PvP in the game. The current system is not totally consensual as advertised.

Although their system was very buggy at the start, the Rift system seemed to take care of this. Why can't I just get an option I can toggle for "Never flag me for PvP" and just don't let me heal/damage anyone that is?
Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. Glad BW is fixing this. Anytime there is a game feature which allows griefing, it should be changed. Endgame shouldn't be ruining other people's game.
The following are fit topics for conversation for men reclining on a soft couch by the fire in the winter season, when after a meal they are drinking sweet wine and eating a little pulse: Who are you, and what is your family ? What is your acre, my friend? How old were you when the Medes invaded this land?

CactusBrawler's Avatar


CactusBrawler
02.17.2012 , 03:13 PM | #9
It's getting fixed next patch.

Isn't it?

HELhikari's Avatar


HELhikari
02.17.2012 , 03:16 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
It's getting fixed next patch.

Isn't it?
Yes. But that doesn't stop people going on about it for some reason.
[HEL]hikari
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.