The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

Why?

Balance Sages dont put out that much damage since the majority of our damage comes from CLEANSABLE DoT's.

Why does their damage need a nerf?

Some things need to work differently in the balance tree. This I would make a priority.

I think I follow you..
I do hope that the Sages and Sorc players are going to be ready when wrath and PoM only work with Crushing Darkness/Mind crush..


I disagree with this.
I miss my hybrid spec, I really do.
Instead Im forced to play a death Field hybrid, Full deception, Full darkness, or Full madness..
I chose full madness..Its freakin fun.

I dont think people understand.

if you kill Hybrids
You do not get rid of the CC.
As full balance
I get and instant cast Force Lift that fills your resolve if its broken on damage..great escape CC.
Force Stun-1min cooldown instant cast 4sec stun
Force Push-20sec CD AoE KB
Sever Force-31 talent immobilize for 2 seconds

A hyrbid gets
Force Stun
Force Lift thats on a 2 second cast ( same as above if its talented.)
AoE KB + immobilize for 2 seconds ( 5 seconds if enemy is untouched)
AoE stun from bubble.

Full TK/Lighting gets

Force Stun
Force Lift on Cast
AoE KB + immobilize
AoE stun from bubble

The stun from the bubble is justifiable if you area full tk/lighting spec sorc/sage.

My proposed fix to the hybrids to limit them would be to

Buff Disturbance
The AoE Root on Overload should be higher.
** Make Reverberating Force a 3 pnt talent with increasing values of 16.7% and put eletric bindings next to it as a Tier 6.
The AoE blind needs to be in the healers Tree in the place of Egress/Fadeout
The AoE Blind needs to give more than 2 bars of resolve ( needs to give like 4 or 5)
Wrath/PoM needs to work only with Crushing Darkness/ Mind Crush

Any class that clumps up and uses AoE attacks is going to do GROUP BURST
If its a stack of Mercs DFA'ing or Sweep shooting a group
or Juggernauts smashing people
AoE in mass= Large number of damage dealt.

Force in balance does a max of 3.4k damage on a crit vs someone with no gear.
TKW is only buffed by PoM which gives it 20% boost.
Other classes hit for that plus with AoE damage (juggernaut smash).

Lets leave the DoT class's 15 cooldown AoE attack alone please

Not quoting your Sirolos. I can see your points of view too. Just don't want to make this an uber long post.

What I was referring to when nerfing AOE damage is, by the same token, buff single target sustained damage. As I said, my only gripe with Sorcs/Sages in PvP right now is the amount of damage a group puts out.

Similarly, I felt Scoundrel/Operatives needed a sustained damage buff to go with their burst nerf.

In other words, I wouldn't mind a Weaken Mind buff, a disturbance buff, or the corresponding abilities depending on spec).

You also rarely see 3-4 juggs in a warzone together. Secondly, you also don't see them on the same target. Their abilities are not done from ranged too. So FIB + TKW in a hybrid Spec between 3 Sorcs is MASSIVE, at range, and includes all utilities.

This is my primary issue with sorcs/sages. Shadows have absurd burst. 3 Shadows could melt one target to the next to the next. But 3 sages could melt 3 targets in voidstar with ease, with the same amount of time it'd need for the 3 shadows to kill one.

This is absurdly powerful and why Warzones dominated by Sages/Sorcs on one side is almost always a theme of most Sage/Sorc whine threads posted here.

huh?
Traps the target in a whirlwind for 8 seconds. Non-player, non-standard, and non-weak targets heal rapidly while trapped. Damage causes this effect to end prematurely.

And while you are rooted you do absolutely can do nothing?

And again, we are both out of the fight, because I can do no damage to you to break that.

If you don't understand how 36/60s being free time to create distance on a ranged class is overpowered then you either never played other MMOs or simply do not understand how PvP works.

while i agree with that this situation occurs in a warzone, you also have to realize, it is the opponents of the sorcerers who are playing badly, why on earth would you stack up like that in a warzone?

i see this as the opponents having no idea how to fight a sorcerer's aoe, they just choose to stay grouped up, as where if they just spread out it would've nullified such amount of aoe damage.

Exactly! I don't see how people are glossing over the insane amount of control, and the time other classes are trapped in it. As a melee I simply cannot do ANYTHING to you when i am held off at range. So even if you put put "mediocre" DPS, by the time i finally get to when i can lay down some dmg...most of my health bar is gone.

Now look...I would have a not problem with this if once i got to you, i could blow your face up. BUT to make matters worse, you can bubble and defend against my attacks, while simultaneously dpsing down the last of my hp, or just CC me again and run of to reset the fight! Look how you have just completely side stepped your class "weakness."

I don't see how one can even attempt to rationalize that such a situation is fair and balanced.

It's not a spell lockout. It's a full blown mezz. You can move. He can't. You're not out of the fight. He is.

if you don't understand that if a sorcerer has managed to create that amount of distance between you and the sorcerer while still mindless chasing them, you either never played other mmo's or simply do not understand how pvp works.

i don't understand this situation at all, "omg a sorcerer is kiting but not doing any damage to me, so i'll just keep chasing them..."

my mind is utterly blown. oh yea in order for 2 of our cc's to even work we have to be basically in melee range, i guess all that distance we created is all for nothing...

I don't think you understand the mechanics of the AOE unless you play a sage. If you do, you should know the range of your Force in Balance and it certainly isn't the blue circle on the ground. It is significantly bigger, and so is telekinetic wave. Unless we're standing at separate pillars on a map like Voidstar, we will be hit by the AOE. And when you are forced to clump around the door to stop cappers/try to defuse, sometimes there's no choice.

Guys, before we get into more of this stuff, considering the range of the of a Force Sweep for Sentinel. If you've played a sentinel, you know it SUCKS, and misses half the targets in a group.

AND you have to stand next to it. Consider how powerful a hybrid build AOE spec is in comparison to a melee range AOE. Let's put that part to bed already. It is way different than Jugg Smash or Marauder Sweep.

Not sure if troll. If you CC me to create distance how exactly am I LETTING you kite me? There's nothing I can do to stop you. Your melee range CCs are available when you need them(when someone is in range to hurt you - MELEE RANGE).

Edit:

So you're saying it's balanced for a Sorcerer to be able to just throw out a CC and create distance, at which point it's stupid of the melee to even bother going after him?

This isn't some single player game where you're supposed to be the overpowered main character.