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Maul's Role in the Star Wars Universe

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Maul's Role in the Star Wars Universe

Mkats's Avatar


Mkats
02.15.2012 , 05:38 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Faefrost View Post
Sadly no, Darth Maul was really at heart a shallow character.

But he perfectly illustrates one of the problems Lucas has at times as a filmaker. I refer to this as the Boba Fett principle.

George is an amazing visual artist. He creates scenes and images that are just stunning and cannot be compared to. Even today his original trilogy has never been equaled in its ability to take you to worlds long ago and far far away.

And that is part of the problem. He creates amazing visuals, but he doesn't always create the characterization, dialogue and back story to back them up. What makes this worse is the "Boba Fett principle". Where he then takes those stunning (but relatively minor, to him at least) images and uses them for marketing purposes.

Lucas has never understood fans love of or fascination with Boba Fett. To George Boba was just a throwaway character. One of the Bounty Hunters. I dude in a helmet. Nothing special and no great story. he failed to appreciate that after the original movie, in 1979, Boba Fett was the first glimpse of what was to come. He was the first little piece we were given as kids that there was more to the Star Wars story than just the one movie. That it wasn't over. (remember back then, except for James Bond there really was no such thing as a movie franchise. Sequels were rare and often cheesy). And then the magic contest. If you bought enough of the regular Star Wars action figures, and clipped the proof of purchase code from them and mailed them in, they would send you a cool figure of a never before seen character from the NEXT movie. It was like Willy Wonka come to life. He was a bounty hunter! He had armor and a targeting thingy on his helmet and a jet pack and rockets and a wrist blasters! And he was hunting Han Solo! Oh the stories we came up with for him. And then the second and third movies released. He walked around in 2 or 3 scenes. Had about three lines of dialogue, and died stupidly in an evil carnivorous hole in the ground. Ummm ***???

You would have though that GL might have learned from that experience. But then he went and did exactly the same thing with the prequels. After 20 years of waiting, the ever increasing rabid fan base finally got a glimpse of a new Star Wars in production. And what do they see. This amazing image. A red and black kabuki Sith Lord wielding a double bladed red lightsaber/staff. OMG was this image ever badaz. Once again we and our children spent countless hours imagining how cool this character was, based on those badaz images and action figures alone. And then the movie hit. He walked around in three or 4 scenes. Had three lines of spoken dialogue, no actual story, had one exceedingly wicked fight, and died stupidly in a giant hole in the ground. UMMM? Once again ***???

The problem is Lucas is like the worlds greatest comic book cover artist, except he paints with people and film. He sets up these amazing looking scenes, astonishing characters etc. And then move on to the next bit of color and landscape without ever filling in the details we are screaming for. This isn't always a bad thing. Lucas when playing to his strengths of imagery is one of the truest masters of his art. It's when he attempts to play to his weaknesses or fails to recognize them that things fall apart (see romantic dialogue, Anakin v Padme). Unfortunately George seems to often has some personal blind spots regarding his own weak areas (casting small children, sorry GL but only Spielberg even manages to make it work) and often his greatest strengths (just the images of Boba Fett and Darth Maul stirred such strong fan reaction that he should have opted to better use them. He doesn't always recognize when he makes something incredible.) To be fair in this regard he is probably the same as the rest of us.

At least there are some signs that Lucas is at long last starting to learn to recognize some of this. The way he has recently played around with some of the images of the characters in the Clone Wars series, and even essentially brought back a "Darth Maul" character with a much more complicated and compelling backstory in the form of Savage Oppress is hopeful.
Could not have said it better my friend. You hit the nail right on the head with that.

Luminen's Avatar


Luminen
02.15.2012 , 09:16 PM | #62
I think it would've he was an impressive character. maybe not the prime antagonist, but a character who was still there.
"Sometimes one must sacrifice greatly in order to keep moving forward."

Vhyle's Avatar


Vhyle
02.16.2012 , 10:36 AM | #63
I'd like to point one thing out in regards to TCW.

GL's daughter was the sole creator of Savage Oppress. Look it up. She created everything about the character. I also believe Maul was her favorite character from the Prequals, but don't quote me on that because I have no idea. I saw an interview where she was talking about this character she had created. I believe it was at the 2010 or 2011 comic con, she was talking to one of the G4 anchors, either Adam Sessler or Morgan about it.

I think it's cool she created that character, because there was quite a bit of story about him. How he was created is one of the most messed up things I've seen in a cartoon like that. It's like the Manchurian Candidate, but made even more nightmarish because Night Sisters did it. Was awesome to watch the entire process how he was made into Savage.

Maul is one of my favorite characters, but alas he is behind Vader, because Vader is my favorite. You have to realize, all Sith are tools when used by a higher power. All through Swtor, your Sith character is a tool for a supposed much more stronger master. It is only until you reach your utmost potential through betrayal that you are no longer a tool, because you then are able to end your masters plan in one form or another, and are made stronger because of the hatred and other emotions involved.

Darth Maul would have, and did, become much more powerful after cleaning the floor with Qui-Gon. In my opinion, Qui-Gon had no chance to beat Maul because Maul's Passion and hatred for the two of them (Qui-gon and Obi-Wan) was so strong that the brief pause did nothing to stem that hate and rage. The only thing that ended Maul, was Maul himself when he let his passion and hatred slip when he thought he had Obi Wan beat. He got cocky and quite simply, dropped the ball in an immense lax of judgement. That is the downfall of all Sith, they drop the ball in a sense, because they get way too over confident and think they've won when they are only in the lead with a quarter left to play.

I do agree with some others that have posted, in that Maul did not have the power or strength to go on from where he ended up, simply because he was not powerful enough for Sidious. Sidious needed someone more powerful and a lot more driven, hence Dooku. Dooku, in my eyes, had the drive and power that Sidious needed at that time, because he simply had no one else more powerful. The kid was no where near ready for what he needed, which is why he watched his progress very closely. Dooku was a great character for the time, a great stop gap for Sidious. Those two got quite a lot done, but when Dooku's usefulness was up, he was ended.

If you go through the Sith Warrior's story, you experience much the same, except a certain someone miscalculates exactly who is stronger, and does a boo boo that he later regrets, much to his embarrassment. I won't spoil anything, but it's a very fitting ending, and you certainly feel ****** at the end of it.

At any rate, that's my opinion. Maul and Dooku were both great characters, in my opinion. I saw more in them than even Lucas did, and I saw more and imagined more in them from the brief moments they were in action than even Lucas saw. I think a lot of us did, and a lot of us didn't. That's the great thing about stories, you form your own prospective based on what the writer has written for you, so that your imagination can do the rest. GL did that pretty well, but there is so much more he could have done to make the 6 movies even better than they were. 4-6 were the best, and will always remain so, at least for me.
"can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out." - battlebug

LordHartigan's Avatar


LordHartigan
02.16.2012 , 11:25 AM | #64
The mind really start wander when you think of all that could have been done story wise in the prequels. I would like to have seen Maul in EP II as well, but then both EP I and II would have had to have been told a different way from a timeline perspective. The gap that exists between I and II is just too big to make Maul work I think. It's about 10 years I think. I think that was a huge mistake. I would have made Anakin much older in the first movie, like in his early teens. EP I to me has always felt like it was meant to be a set up piece. A movie that tells the audience what's going on on a larger scale in this universe. The discovery of Anakin is just kind of background. I always felt that was unnecessary and that EP I was just done....wrong, I guess. I would have started with Anakin being older, seeing some of his early training etc. so that we got a chance to see some of why he turns later.

What that has to do with Maul is that would have allowed I and II to occurr closer together chronologically. Maybe a 3-5 year gap between EP I and II instead. That would allow an easier carry over for Maul. I think you would then keep EP II largly the same but just substitue Maul for Dooku. A lightsaber dual at the end with Maul instead of Dooku would have been far better.

Thourton's Avatar


Thourton
02.16.2012 , 11:46 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Acheilus View Post
He should have survived Episode 1 and came back.
He did and does.

http://io9.com/5849212/star-wars-the...-from-the-dead

Careful what you wish for. GL may grant it in splendid, mind-and-dream-crushing fashion.

LordHartigan's Avatar


LordHartigan
02.16.2012 , 01:37 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Thourton View Post
He did and does.

http://io9.com/5849212/star-wars-the...-from-the-dead

Careful what you wish for. GL may grant it in splendid, mind-and-dream-crushing fashion.
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO!. I wish Maul had lived as much as the next guy and we had gotten to see more of him. But I can not stand it when an IP comes up with some inconceivable way of bringing someone back from the dead just because it's a popular character. CUT IN HALF is dead folks. What are they gonna say? 'Well it's not like he as cut in half the long way.'? You aint coming back from that. Lucas can re-do episode I all over so Maul doesn't die at the end if he wants, but no resurecting cut in half people. That's where I draw the line.

IAJAKI's Avatar


IAJAKI
02.16.2012 , 02:09 PM | #67
A mistake I think we are making here is to assume that Maul should have replaced Dooku when in actuality he should have replaced grievous. Dooku should have been established as a former Jedi/ rich guy/ bad guy in EP1 as appearing to be the true master in an already formed CIS and Maul as his apprentice but it's revealed later that maul is just an assassin and dooku serves Sidious. EP1 goes on as is (for better or worse!) BUT MAUL DOES NOT DIE! Instead he is recovered by Dooku and Sidious and turned into a robot like thing AKA grevious and then becomes the bruiser in EP2 and 3. And make it seem that the technology is the prototype for what will be used to construct Vader (coughing vs iconic breathing).

This
-Gives Maul more character, eliminates grevious stupidity and explains ife support tech
-more develops dooku
-gives consistent developed villains.
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