"Advanced Classes = Fundamentally Different Class Designs"

I should of clarified - I thought I did so by explaining that I tried multiple Gunslinger specs - I did try each skill tree and hibreds, the fact remains that the bread and butter of the Gunslinger class does depend on going into "cover." And, it's clear based on reaching 50 and almost 60 valor, this isn't a knee jerk response to my decision of Gunslinger. I clearly have played it long enough and tested it long enough AND it is the EXACT reason why a player should have to reselect the Advance class. AFTER, you have exhausted all your options within an advance class and given the dev team over 2 months to fix the bug. If it was a minor bug it wouldn't be such a hassle, but again...the Gunslinger's main function (DPS) is borked by this bug. I really don't know how you interpreted "a whim" from my previous explanation, but hopefully this clarifies it further in case a dev read it and misinterpreted it too.

Thanks

Come on now. It's a suggestion form. You want to turn it off?

I agree with the OP, but I'm fine if the idea isn't implemented, I said that.



Let's not badger one another. That was the main point of that post.

Thank you. And I will return the complement, because you have been quite civil and willing to discuss the issue without it turning into some sort of flame war.

I personally enjoy a good debate and have, and will continue to play Devils Advocate just for the sake of keeping a good debate going.

Now I will fully admit that it is possible that the Dev's will change their mind on this issue down the road, and I will allow that I might even change mine. However until then I will continue to point out why I think this AC switching is a bad idea, if for no other reason then to provide examples to the Dev's of people who don't want it.

Let's try and keep this discussion free of attacks if possible...we've all done an admirable job of it so far. If you don't agree with my idea or reasoning, that's fine.

Please state where my desire is to play the FotM class? If you re-read ALL of my posts, my PRIMARY reasoning is to provide flexibility for end-game PVE guilds that WILL face team roster issues in the future, specifically related to losing players to RL who fulfill key role (i.e. Tank and Heals). That's not a FotM issue...that's an issue of allowing a team to continue where it would otherwise have to PUG or wait for another player to level a new toon from scratch. And in the latter case, it isn't so much for the player having to re-level, but the 7 other folks who's operation progress has been stalled.

If you re-read my posts, you will realize that I have never stated anything to the effect of NOT wanting to re-level, do class missions, etc. In fact, in more than one post, you'll see my affinity for alts and my vast enjoyment in this game's solo-leveling content and story. My posts have nothing to do with a lack of desire to re-level, but instead providing end-game PVE players the flexibility to change for the betterment or survival of an operations-team.

Well, ignoring the wasteful adjectives in this sentence, I am of the full belief that this issue will not really come to the forefront of the player base until the majority of the players are involved in end-game activities.

As most MMO-players can attest, the time spent at end-game usually vastly outweighs the time spent leveling from 1 to level cap. In my PRIMARY reasoning, the issues that arise from NOT being able to change AC specs WITHIN the Core Class will only become noticeable when operation teams and PVE end-game guilds begin to battle with regular roster issues, RL changes, etc that are common to all end-game MMO activities.

But we don't...

They did make a decision, for the time being. As was posted by Greg Zoeller, Lead Combat Designer from Bioware, on November 11, 2011 regarding changing ACs:

And that's why folks like me are posting our request for change.

I would like the option to change AC within about an hour of making the decision. (an hour logged into that character).

This would allow someone who made a mistake to change it.

Otherwise though? No.
Changing from Shadow to Sage is playing an entirely different class. The same is true for all of them. The class changes fundamentally from AC to AC. This is evidenced by the entirely *different* set of skills you learn from your AC training tab.

We have 8 character slots per server. There are 8 AC's per side. Coincidence? I think not.

You need to think as carefully over which AC you choose as you do over which base class you choose.

Swapping from Shadow to Sage is fundamentally the same as deciding you want to swap from Gunslinger to Trooper. If you want to change- roll up a new character.

Thats my .02 anyway

No, apparently you don't because your first line included some garbage about wanting to play the class du jour, which is at best only true for some people. There is a spectrum of reasons for wanting an AC respec that has, apparently, evaded you. You then tried to qualify your argument with an appeal to popularity.


Although I could care less if they add this functionality or not, I have yet to see anyone provide a reason WHY this is a bad idea WITHOUT employing logical fallacies. Every argument I've read is an argumentum ad antiquitatem, argumentum ad numerum, or non-sequitor.

I always thought they were for 4 republic and 4 imperial characters.


Do we actually get 16 slots per server counting both sides? Or just the 8 I see currently when I log in. (I've only created Empire chars thus far).

There have been plenty of valid reasons why this shouldn't be allowed.

The fact that you consider them to be logical fallacies no more makes it true, then saying Advanced Classes are not classes true.

I have found that the people who want this, simply reject every reason provided to not allow it, just because they can't actually counter that reason.

However I have yet to see a single valid reason to allow it, that couldn't be summed up with "because I want to."

That may be, but the Jedi Shadow balance tree is in fact different then the Jedi Sage balance tree. So you may have one case where it's the same but there's also at least one case where it is not the same.

Ac switching was originally allowd and rightfully so. I'm sure it will be re implemented in the future, once bw will be done milking the people who rolled the same class multiple times just to play what's basically just a different spec.

Being able to switch ac wouldn't affect the game for those people who prefer to have multiple characters for different acs, while as someone else already said, not being able to switch ac penalizes small guilds and players who prefer to focus on a single character.

Also
True.

It would be an OPTION. People who don't want it wouldn't be affected by it by simply not using it. They would always be free to roll 100 characters. You can roll 6 characters to cover all acs/trees of a single class for all i care, wanting me to be forced as well because you think it's right that way is perverse to say the least.