The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

Complete and utter nonsense.
Fact is that among the DPS classes Sorc/Sage has one of the lowest reliable single target bursts. Their DPS is decent and their main strength is AoE and DoTs which causes the inflated numbers among the silly fact that shield absorb is counted as healing.
The burst is also not reliable at all since it is based on a 30% procc from a 3 second channel wich also roots us for that time.
So burstwise we are far from 90%.
At best our DPS is at "90%" and it easily interupted. If you see a Sage or Sorc channeling interupt that. It denies them regaining force and their proccs for instant casts. Most important spell to interupt.
Healing as hybrid with no points in Seer is bad. Healing in combat against any opponent with one functional braincell is impossible with no instant heal and no pushback resistance. It burns force fast and if we are ever low on force we have only one method to come back and that is killing ourselves
To put our regeneration talent into perspective, you sacrifice 15% maximum health for 8% force gain. You can at best do this 6 times for 90% maximum health you can get 48% force back.
Still sounds so great?

PS: I do not play hybrid by the way.


@Lormif
Why are you wasting your time with that guy? He thinks is opinion is oh so objective and funnily even though he plays one of the classes which can absolutely destroy a Sage/Sorc in a 1v1 situation he thinks the class must be nerfed badly.
On top of that he has to resort to vastly exaggerated claims. He was proven wrong by tons of players even players who do not even play Sage/Sorc.

I give you an advice, get some popcorn, enjoy the show and hope Bioware does not listen to the forum whiners.

Because the worst place to find balance for a game in general are PvP forums. At least official ones. Too many bad players crying or raging.



Erm, no.
If at all the devs should avoid from these forums like the plague.

I am going to point out one thing, because I am tired of arguing with you...

In this conversation we are talking about hps, so when I am talking about offhands, it is pretty much implied I am talking about hps, yet for some reason your circular argument decides to throw in all stats in general.....

The static stat value non-moddable gear is actually gear that has mods LOCKED. They still have mods in them they're just not available to be swapped out. What this means is if you REALLY want higher endurance you can swap out the high dps mods for endurance mods in your main armor to balance it out. The -ONLY- time when you're completely incapable of matching another character's health level is when they swap out every single DPS mod they have for high endurance tanking mods. If this is the type of case you're talking about then it's hopeless. You're just going to keep coming up with ridiculous restrictions for every argument to fit your view. I'm tempted to do the same but I'm afraid people will think that I'm clueless for arguing that way.

You are actually the only one doing it.. everyone has exactly 16k life, 30 meters and you give up chase automatically with no other mitigating factors.....

Why are you going back to a discussion that's over 30 pages old? Is it because you have no counterargument for the current argument over my static barrier analysis?

A what strawman, and I did not bring up the tangent, it was actually you.

So if I cant get my bubble on before every fight I am a bad sorcerer.... Because you know fights can not start one after the other leaving me with a cooldown.. You know that is kinda a fall...Oh nevermind you guys never give up with that....

Still you are ASSUMING a lot.. However Armor is ALWAYS on. In addition when you dont assume everyone has the same hps, which they wont, armor comes out on top.

I have not made many if any sweeping generalizations, where as you have made many, and it happens that mine are correct, atleast on every server I play on. I dont know which server you guys play on where everyone has around 16k hps.

Well thanks for pointing out the pro nerf side commiteda fallacy, since the ones who brought this up, at least to me...., particularly the OP.

Just arguing the way you do:

If the Sage had enough skill he could overcome it. Other classes need that animation delay so they can survive.
Actually that is not how I argue at all. But nice try, keep it coming.

How I argue is with numbers, such as how real armor mitigation is much better then force armor, cause it scales, and other facts.

Since you've got extremely selective memory

This is what tum said


This is what you said.



You brought this up, you are wrong, you are arguing on tangents, you are the one making generalizations, and you are the one resorting to logical fallacies because you've got no premise to argue on

I'm not saying that heavy armor is worthless. I'm saying that bubble is massively better. I'm not really sure what sort of math you're using.

Half of the skills in this game are elemental/internal or ignore armor in some fashion.

Heavy armor is actually closer to 30%, and bubble can be reduced to 17seconds, and BM would bubble for 3500, so that's actually closer to 30k damage over 20 seconds.

Tracer Missile ignores 20% of armor, so that 30% becomes 24% while the 20% becomes 16%. That means that a Heavy Armored target takes 8% less damage from Tracer Missiles than a Sorcerer.

Assuming an average of 2500 per Tracer missile, per 1.5sec, for 16.5 seconds, that'd be 27500 damage before mitigation.

A Sorcerer blocks 3000 of that, and reduces the rest by 18%.
The Sorcerer would take 20090 damage.

Assuming the Sorcerer pre-cast Bubble, that'd be 17090.

A Heavy-armor blocks 0 of that, and reduces by 24%.
The Heavy-armored class would take 20900 damage.

When as a Sorcerer are you going to have somebody sitting on you spamming attacks, you've got every possible escape in the book ONTOP of bubble. Heavy-armored classes don't have any escape skills, ontop of Sorcerers having more CC than any other class. The Sorcerer can do a dozen different things to prevent the Tracer Missile spam ontop of Bubble preventing damage.

Ok so armor scales. The problem with thinking of PvP damage like a constant stream as in PvE is that someone taking that sort of damage will simply die anyways.


Getting piled is the only time you'd take enough damage in 20 seconds that 12-15% extra mitigation is more than a 3.5k bubble would provide. Keep in mind 30-40% of PvP damage is NOT kinetic/energy and will NOT be mitigated by armor. Lets math it out.

Static Barrier Math(PvP)
-------------------------

16k+3.5k = 19.5k w/16% mitigation = L

16k+0 = 16k w/24% mitigation = M

16k+0 = 16k w/30% mitigation = H


20k damage(6k internal/elemental) in 20 seconds:

L = 11,760(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 1740 health remaining

M = 10,640(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = -640 health remaining

H = 9,800(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 200 health remaining


40k damage(12k Internal/Elemental) in 20 seconds:

L = 23,520(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -16,020

M = 21,280(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -17,280

H = 19,600(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -15,600

--------------------------

Now think about this for a second. When will you reasonably be taking 40k damage in 20 seconds? Keep in mind PvE DPS on a stationary target is around 1500DPS for most classes. In PvP you can reasonably expect a player to do ~1k DPS to a human target. For Sorcerers with a single bubble to have less mitigation than the Heavy armored classes with the most physical mitigation in the game two well geared players would need to beat on the Sorcerer for a full 20 seconds without interruption. If a Sorcerer manages to cast a second bubble from having one pre-cast prior to this happening then the Heavy armor is better at an astonishing 80k over 20 seconds. With this in mind it is safe to assume that Sorcerer light armor is more than made up for by Static Barrier.