The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

My statement is more logical because it is talking about SAGES massive problem with ability delay.. It talks about the FACT that if when you see the animation for many of our INSTANT abilitys you can avoide it, and in the case of abilities with cooldowns remove it completely.

For example foce wave, if when you see us doing our animation you can do any type of CC AFTER we start the cast of the INSTANT ability and interupt it, and even make the cooldown trigger without any use...

Actually not sure a strawman, but it a logical fallacy.

Edit: ahh that is right composition.

Just arguing the way you do:

If the Sage had enough skill he could overcome it. Other classes need that animation delay so they can survive.

Actually that is not how I argue at all. But nice try, keep it coming.

How I argue is with numbers, such as how real armor mitigation is much better then force armor, cause it scales, and other facts.

diagnosis: usual example of Caster-phobia that commonly exists in mmos .
treatment: l2p

A Caster-phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, Phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational. In the event the phobia cannot be avoided entirely the sufferer will endure the situation or object with marked distress and significant interference in social or occupational activities.
The terms distress and impairment as defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV-TR) should also take into account the context of the sufferer's environment if attempting a diagnosis. The DSM-IV-TR states that if a phobic stimulus, whether it be an object or a social situation, is absent entirely in an environment - a diagnosis cannot be made. An example of this situation would be an individual who has a fear of mice (Suriphobia) but lives in an area devoid of mice. Even though the concept of mice causes marked distress and impairment within the individual, because the individual does not encounter mice in the environment no actual distress or impairment is ever experienced. Proximity and the degree to which escape from the phobic stimulus should also be considered. As the sufferer approaches a phobic stimulus, anxiety levels increase (e.g. as one gets closer to a snake, fear increases in ophidiophobia), and the degree to which escape of the phobic stimulus is limited and has the effect of varying the intensity of fear in instances such as riding an elevator (e.g. anxiety increases at the midway point between floors and decreases when the floor is reached and the doors open).



Note: I dont play sorc/sage/mage...

Ok so armor scales. The problem with thinking of PvP damage like a constant stream as in PvE is that someone taking that sort of damage will simply die anyways.


Getting piled is the only time you'd take enough damage in 20 seconds that 12-15% extra mitigation is more than a 3.5k bubble would provide. Keep in mind 30-40% of PvP damage is NOT kinetic/energy and will NOT be mitigated by armor. Lets math it out.

Static Barrier Math(PvP)
-------------------------

16k+3.5k = 19.5k w/16% mitigation = L

16k+0 = 16k w/24% mitigation = M

16k+0 = 16k w/30% mitigation = H


20k damage(6k internal/elemental) in 20 seconds:

L = 11,760(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 1740 health remaining

M = 10,640(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = -640 health remaining

H = 9,800(Kinetic/Energy) + 6k(Internal/Elemental) = 200 health remaining


40k damage(12k Internal/Elemental) in 20 seconds:

L = 23,520(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -16,020

M = 21,280(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -17,280

H = 19,600(Kinetic/Energy) + 12k(Internal/Elemental) = -15,600

--------------------------

Now think about this for a second. When will you reasonably be taking 40k damage in 20 seconds? Keep in mind PvE DPS on a stationary target is around 1500DPS for most classes. In PvP you can reasonably expect a player to do ~1k DPS to a human target. For Sorcerers with a single bubble to have less mitigation than the Heavy armored classes with the most physical mitigation in the game two well geared players would need to beat on the Sorcerer for a full 20 seconds without interruption. If a Sorcerer manages to cast a second bubble from having one pre-cast prior to this happening then the Heavy armor is better at an astonishing 80k over 20 seconds. With this in mind it is safe to assume that Sorcerer light armor is more than made up for by Static Barrier.

Here is the problem your logic.. You assume all health in pvp is equal, when it is not, not even close. It can have more then a 3k variance among the classes. This is not a small over site, since armor scales with hps because you can survive longer to take more damage to be mitigated.

In addition you assume that pvp damage is 30-40%, which it is much less especially for the spec you hate.. For example in the hybrid spec you hate so much 1/7th the damage is internal.


Therefore you need to adjust your comparison of the sorc/2 other classes to show the differnce in both health and the 14% internal damage.

Every single other class/spec will have much higher internal damage. The Sorcerer hybrid is the ONLY popular spec that has mostly kinetic damage. It's not reasonable to completely redo the calculations like that. I'm not even taking Armor penetration into account and the second most popular PvP class has 55% armor penetration with Tracer Missile+Passive ArP(Mercenaries). 30% Internal/Elemental is an extremely reasonable estimate. In fact some classes have a lot more of their PvP damage not mitigated by armor. Why do you think there is so much discussion about Tank mitigation being pitiful in PvP? Their armor/shields do not mitigate Internal/Elemental is why.

Your argument about varying health pools is hilariously biased. You're trying to twist the math in your favor by giving everyone different health pools. How exactly does a medium armor wearer automatically have higher health? Is there something preventing a Sorcerer from using the same mods as the other guy? It's impossible to reason with you if you're going to play the "lets put special conditions and limitations to ever possible scenario to skew the results in my favor" game.

Actually I am paking very logical assumptions, full pvp gear. Also yes there is something preventing me from using the same mods, it is called stats. Str mods inherently have more endurance on them. Am I supposed to use mods not made for my class just to get my health up?

So no, I am not staking hps to make my case stronger, the game does that for me.

As for the damage discrepancy, you were the one that made the 2v1 comparison vs the sorc, not me, therefore again, it is you who needs to adjust the math.

1. No they do not.

All mods have the same endurance if they're the same type. At 25 it's Regular(48/29/37), Type A(61/37/11), and Type B(37/48/29). Some of the datamined mods are bugged but you can confirm this pattern in-game. Lower level mods of the same type have the same ratio but lesser overall stats.

Proof:

http://www.torhead.com/item/7KGWxhz/...ptitude-mod-25
http://www.torhead.com/item/82swZiD/...ed-deft-mod-25

Enhancements are obviously the same for everyone since it's all secondary stats.

Armoring at rank 25 is either 51/55(tanking) or 61/44(healing/DPS).

Proof:

http://www.torhead.com/item/a34hSps/...do-armoring-25
http://www.torhead.com/item/2k3yxhO/...ex-armoring-25

http://www.torhead.com/item/flFdT4A/...an-armoring-25
http://www.torhead.com/item/gXfHZo8/...ht-armoring-25

-----

You have no grounds for saying there is a difference in health between different armor types.

------

2. What does that other scenario have to do with the math NOW?

------

3. PvP gear actually skews the damage taken in favor of the Sorcerer since the 40k damage comparison would turn into a 36k damage comparison, the 20k damage comparison would turn into an 18k damage comparison, etc.

So you are assuming I have access to high level PVE items, and you forget about things like offhands?
Shoot even my battlemaster stuff has less end.

This is just you yet again trying to fit your argument into a vary narrow scope and using a logical fallacy to make it seem like it covers the entirety.


There is a reason when scientists do things like this they using controls.

As for the comparison, you are stull using faulty numbers, and a 1 sided analogy..