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I think I know what's causing poor FPS for some users (no fix yet)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Customer Service (Read-Only)
I think I know what's causing poor FPS for some users (no fix yet)
 

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Cupelixx's Avatar


Cupelixx
02.15.2012 , 07:54 PM | #751
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
There has been a big question that has irked me since this all started. If this performance issues happens on low end, mid range, and high end machines, why is it only affecting some of the user base? (regardless of if thats 5%, 10%, or even 30%.).

From a programming stand point, that just doesnt make sense. It would make sense if the only people having the issue were people on low end machines. Or, if the only people having it owned Dell's, or if the only people having it were using nvidia cards, etc etc. But the fact that its happening to such a full range of computer specs, without anything in common with each other to link them to a specific commonality is truly mind boggling.

How can the same game code cause such a different performance on such a broad range of computer specs outside of the common "Low end = slow, mid range = average, high end = super performance" expected results?.

How indeed...

unless... at some points in the patching, downloading, updating, installing, etc of the game files, some users got parts of the code (code version), that differed from other users.

"But people have uninstalled and reinstalled the game and the problem still persists!" Right, so the question is, where did they reinstall the game from? DVD? The games digital downloader? Knowing this would go a long way towards determining if there was an actual source of bad code.

"But people can run the repair tool". Right, but the repair tool only fixes missing files. Not files that might be the wrong "Version", with the exception of maybe the games executable. Also, if the digital download of the game has the bad code, then it would be comparing bad code, to bad code, and deem that no repair was needed. This would also mean that if you had good files from a DVD install, and ran the repair, your game could now be having performance problems.

"But what about when the game patches itself?" Patches only replace the parts of the code that have been changed. If you have game code on your system that is bad, but wasnt something they modified in the patch, a game patch wont touch that part of the code.

I know this may seem like a long shot, but from a programmers experience, this sort of thing can happen when you have 100+ developers (some of which are probably outsourced), and you are all working from the same code base. Throw in improper version tracking or file check out system (or total lack there of.) and you run the chance of getting versions of the code mismatched, and mixed up. Its entirely possible that the code the developers have running on their test machines isnt 100% the same as the code those of us with problems are having.

Now... this theory can easy be put to rest if Bioware simply responded saying "We've recently had our developers install the game from the same download tool and method that any customer would do, and they are still not experiencing these performance issues"

So Bioware... the ball is STILL in your court... This isnt a request asking you to say you fixed something, just to acknowledge that your team is indeed working/playing off the same exact game code that those of us with issues are using. Especially when it comes to you trying to test WHY this is happening to many of us.
That is all possible. The short answer is...I don't know. I think what is really happening is that the general problem exists for everyone. Some people just don't notice it (we have people posting in some threads that 20-30 FPS is smooth to them). Other people experience the problem but are less sensitive to it and so again, it goes unnoticed. People like me notice such things happening and pull every aspect of it apart to get at the root of the problem.

I would love for someone not having problems (or not observing the problems) to repeat the jump once and repeatedly opening your inventory test. The results of that test from the different PCs I've tried it on says that this is likely a systemic problem. I'll wager that the same bizarre skipping happens even on machines 'not having the problem' and my theory is proven.
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FirstDarkpriest's Avatar


FirstDarkpriest
02.15.2012 , 08:30 PM | #752
I support this thread.


Interestingly enough I have a friend with these specs

Spoiler


Who was running the game on the highest settings (minus shadows) at 40 frames per second pre 2/9/11 patch.

Post 2/9/11 he cannot even play the game as the frame rate is below 4fps on the LOWEST settings.

FirstDarkpriest's Avatar


FirstDarkpriest
02.15.2012 , 08:31 PM | #753
I haven't tried the jump bagopen thing

BUT I will try it on my system with these specs

Spoiler

ZeMomiji's Avatar


ZeMomiji
02.15.2012 , 08:59 PM | #754
I couldnt help but to notice the Known In-Game Issues: Updated February 14th thread(yesterday's update) did not mention anything about FPS problems. I PMd the moderator asking for their attention, added links to this thread and the ones in my sig. Maybe this will get the attention of devs.

Gadzooks's Avatar


Gadzooks
02.15.2012 , 10:46 PM | #755
Quote: Originally Posted by Cupelixx View Post
I would love for someone not having problems (or not observing the problems) to repeat the jump once and repeatedly opening your inventory test. The results of that test from the different PCs I've tried it on says that this is likely a systemic problem. I'll wager that the same bizarre skipping happens even on machines 'not having the problem' and my theory is proven.
I had a guy in my guild do this, someone who said he got 80+ fps in fleet and similar in warzones.

He ran around opening his character sheet in fleet super fast and this is his response.

"Holy crap, i got my game to come to a 100% standstill by spamming my character sheet open and close several times"

So yes, it happens to ANYONE, even those supposedly getting good performance.

Tsaritsin's Avatar


Tsaritsin
02.16.2012 , 12:38 AM | #756
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
This reminds me of something else as well.

During the early days of WoW, there was an issue where your characters would take a LONG time to show up on the character select screen. They would take long because of it having to load pretty much everything about your character, including gear, stats, inventory, skills, talents etc. The more characters you had, the longer it took.

Of course, Blizzard finally fixed it. Most likely by removing the need to load all that data just to show your character. They probably also allowed for some linking item table that just took the item ID of your gear, linking it to just a table for how that gear looks on your character, rather than actually polling the database for the entire specs on your gear.

I have a feeling that SWTOR is pulling as this type of data for every player that comes into "your zone". Ever try to inspect someone? Notice how there doesnt seem to really be a load time like this is in WoW when you inspect someone? Aside from the normal 1 second "freeze" that you get when your open your bags, the game immediately displays that players stats and gear (with full stats). This means the game has already had your client get this data prior to you requesting it. This to me seems like a wasted task. I could play for days without ever inspecting someones gear. Id rather just have it take 3-5 seconds to load their character data when I do, than to preload it for every character that im around.

This would have a HUGE impact on performance in areas such as the fleet, where there are 100+ players around you at any given time. It would affect warzones as well, but not nearly as much (the main FX file seems to be 99% of the performance problem in warzones.) ilum would be a mix of both of these problems being that its pvp (heavy use of the main FX file), and lots of players (like the fleet).

Bioware needs to really go through and massively reduce the amount of things the game is making the client load and process that arent really needed. IE: optimization.

Also,as far as I am aware, the only time Blizz have thrown a mini tantrum with regards to add-ons was concerning the pulling of Player Data, in relation to add-ons like Gear Score.

With this add-on you could use it like a simple inspect, but it went a stage further than the Blizz inspect and added a Gear Score to the player, and it could also be set so that simply hovering your game cursor over a player would bring up an inspect box with the Gear Score included.

Anyway, Blizz threw a little tantrum if I remember right, they felt that too many add-ons were starting to pull player data, and they made some changes that resulted in restrictions on what some add-ons could do.

This lead to the infamous stage in Cata (late Cata I think it was) when the inspect function was well and truly broken, inspecting a player with Blizz's inspect function lead to an Error code, only way out was to re-log, it all got sorted out in the end, but the guys making add-ons had to change things with regards to pulling player data.

Anyway, it kind of hints at the fact that this is a fairly important subject, because Blizz have a very relaxed view of add-ons, pritty much anything goes, as long as it does not break the TOS.

Anyway, I am just rambling to bump the thread, lol

Escarrabutxaques's Avatar


Escarrabutxaques
02.16.2012 , 12:54 AM | #757
Just posting to say thanks to the OP, Lemon_King for his RAMDRIVE guide and eMPthreeDanie for testing performance in warzones without several files.

Using a Ramdrive now with diskcache arena, swtor_main_art_fx_1 on it and swtor_main_art_dynamic_chest_1 and swtor_main_art_dynamic_cape_1 on other HDD (with links) and have a HUGE increment in fps and load time. FPS on warzones staying on stable 60 (Vsinc on), Ilum - never goes below 25 even in massive fights.

P.S. These guys have done a lot more for community than CS

zaerox's Avatar


zaerox
02.16.2012 , 01:27 AM | #758
Odd, for some reason I don't have these problems anymore with my new machine.. see stats below..

I5 2500k 4.3k (OC)
8GB of DDR3 1600mhz
GTX 560TI 1GB 850mhz OC
Asus Maximus IV Gene Z68 board

And this with all on high and everything, sometimes turning off shadows helps with the fps as well..
ShAdOwS -Sith Assassin-

Dranzen's Avatar


Dranzen
02.16.2012 , 01:44 AM | #759
Quote: Originally Posted by Xrazor View Post
In response to the OP, you may be on to something, as that MAY very well be what it's doing for some people. However I simply upgraded to a new CPU/MB/RAM/Vid card on my son's machine and the game is now for the most part smooth sailing.

I only purchased an i3 2120 3.3ghz CPU/8gb DDR3 1600/Asus P67 MB/1gb GTX 460 video card and used his existing 7200 RPM WD Black HD. He had a 9750 2.4ghz quad-core Phenom Gen 1/8gb DDR2 memory/old HP MB and a GT 430 1gb video card.

No SSDs or ramfiles just an upgrade did it for us. He went from 8-11fps in WZ to 24-60+ in Alderan alone. So some users simply require the proper hardware to run this game too, because sadly I believe the system requirements aren't honest. I also don't think it's any ONE thing to solve this FPS issue across the board, it's clear that there's a number of different issues at work here causing people huge FPS losses.
Strange, I run on a i7 chipset, 470 GTX, 6 GB of ram, standard T1 HDD, and yet I'm pulling around 54 to 72 fps in warzones at max settings except for shadows off.

In Ilum, I'm now pulling around 40 to 80 fps with 40 people on screen. It plummets when more show up. Also shadows is off. With Shadows on low, everything is at 10 to 15 fps in Ilum.

Tsaritsin's Avatar


Tsaritsin
02.16.2012 , 02:03 AM | #760
Bioware predict their own problem -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OanZZ...eature=related

Just to raise the mood a little, lol
"I am suffering from a cascade failure,
The flaws in my ENGINE are multiplying exponentially,
And my Death is inevitable, I am not worth mourning."
SWTOR, Chamber of Speech, HEROIC 2+
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