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** Definitive PvP Design Flaw List **

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
** Definitive PvP Design Flaw List **

Zaodon's Avatar


Zaodon
02.15.2012 , 03:18 PM | #1
I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

==================================================
Any Warzone
  • The fundamental mechanics of starting a new match are flawed, in that matches VERY FREQUENTLY start as 8 vs (less than 8). A new system needs to be designed to prevent this from CONSTANTLY happening.
  • Uneven Warzones cause the population-dominant side to crush the low-population side in PvP due to gear advantages gained thru disproportionate rewards.
  • The system allows players to join warzones with only seconds left, thus destroying their queue position, wasting their time, and granting no rewards at all.
  • Players in PvE can exploit by joining a warzone, getting buffs from the different classes, and then quitting and going back to PvE with full buffs. Leaving a warzone by any means (end of match, quitting, disconnecting) should cause you to lose all class-based buffs to prevent this exploit.

Ranked Warzones
  • Game crashes from SWTOR cause you to lose ELO rating
  • Reconnecting does not put you back into the warzone you crashed out of, like every other MMORPG ever written

Huttball
  • having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

Voidstar
  • having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

Novare Coast
  • having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose
  • opening cinematic serves no purpose and delays entry to the match

Open World
  • There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
02.15.2012 , 03:21 PM | #2
I'm definately inclined to agree.

Baalazar's Avatar


Baalazar
02.15.2012 , 03:22 PM | #3
When you post design flaws maybe you should offer some solutions. Anyone can see problems but very few can actually offer some insight into fixing it.

Zaodon's Avatar


Zaodon
02.15.2012 , 03:24 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Baalazar View Post
When you post design flaws maybe you should offer some solutions. Anyone can see problems but very few can actually offer some insight into fixing it.
My goal is to maintain the list. Nothing more.

However, you are free to post your ideas.

SDFX's Avatar


SDFX
02.15.2012 , 03:32 PM | #5
I wonder if it would be more fun to move the starting area for each warzone to ground level and then allow people to use their own purchased speeders to move between objectives? You might need some form of obstacle to prevent people from farming the start points but still...

Alodar's Avatar


Alodar
02.15.2012 , 03:39 PM | #6
IMHO quitting warzones or AFK in warzones should make you lose valor.

It makes sense logically as quitting because you don't like the odds is the opposite of valor.
(▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀!!Ξ[!(Θ)!!!▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀)

moltig's Avatar


moltig
02.15.2012 , 03:40 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Zaodon View Post
I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

================================================== =

Any Warzone
- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end
- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

You have just described the only two scenarios for anyone even playing in PUG warzones- thus this is not a design flaw, it is a character flaw in people not wanting to play with well-known or obvious "baddies."

Huttball
- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose
This is not part of the play area so again- it is for aesthetic purposes to emulate a gladiatorial arena approach- not a design flaw.

Voidstar
- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners
- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose
This was meant for first time joiners of the voidstar Warzone to establish the plotline as well as show them the map layout. Not a design flaw.

Civil War
- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options
Really no idea what you are even saying here, the map is the same for both sides, identically.. there is equal opportunity to approach any of the three nodes.

Ilum
- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP
- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)
The kill trading is a result of the imbalance on most pvp servers- not incentive to complete daily/weekly quotas, there are now objectives on the map that are approachable regardless of willingness to fight. It is well known to all that Ilum needs overhaul- it is a matter of how to do so in a fair and consistent way that is the issue. I suggest you close the thread until you have a bit more understanding of the community's needs.

Open World
- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP
For fun, this is after all: a video game.

Krec's Avatar


Krec
02.15.2012 , 03:40 PM | #8
Problem: Expertise
Solution: Crafted PvP gear
Reason: It's dreadful PvPing as a new 50 vs players with 400+ expertise and something needs to be done. If PvP gear can be crafted then at least players can more easily compete as opposed to attempting to PvP in quest gear. The quality of this gear should really only be rare(blue), in my opinion, offering a boost but still leaving room for improvement (ie. centurion, champion, battlemaster).

DrIzzt-DoUrden's Avatar


DrIzzt-DoUrden
02.15.2012 , 03:45 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Zaodon View Post
I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

================================================== =

Any Warzone
- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end
- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

Huttball
- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

Voidstar
- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners
- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

Civil War
- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

Ilum
- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP
- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

Open World
- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP
I'm not sure how to add incentive for people to stay in a warzone from beginning to end by adding a reward. Some people out there simply don't have need for the reward. A lot of people are leaving and just requeue trying to get into another warzone where they feel that they have a better chance of winning. So I would suggest rather than create a reward as incentive to stay ... create a penalty for leaving.

I don't see the long walk from the beginning of a huttball game a big deal at all. I'm going to assume you're referring to the rare case in which a player joins mid-game and gets kicked out because of this long walk through the tunnel. All I can say is perhaps they should be more prepared.

I agree with you completely on the voidstar thing.

I agree with you on the Civil War as well. I think the map in general is flawed in that some players seem to think just because they're camping the 1 objective that our team has control of they're providing us with much needed defense. This is not the case when our opponent has 2 objectives and that is all that is needed to win.

I will often find 2 or 3 people just standing around doing absolutely nothing collecting defender medals while the rest of the team is outnumbered banging our heads against a wall trying to take a much needed 2nd objective for any chance to win.

I suggest increasing the amount of damage the middle Turret does to the opposing teams ship so that there would be more incentive for both teams to go for that middle turret. Relieving the other two turrets (hopefully) of lazy campers who rarely ever contribute.

Not only will having both sides controlled allow a team a slight advantage when it comes to regrouping (its quicker to get to these sides if u use the right speeder when u respawn)
But they also provide the same benefit to a team when compared to holding a side and middle. There is no difference .. control 2 of the 3 objectives for the majority of time and your team wins. Increasing the damage output of the middle turret would slightly change this warzone in a good way.

World PvP (ilum) needs a complete overhaul. Again I agree with you.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
02.15.2012 , 03:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Krec View Post
Problem: Expertise
Solution: Crafted PvP gear
Reason: It's dreadful PvPing as a new 50 vs players with 400+ expertise and something needs to be done. If PvP gear can be crafted then at least players can more easily compete as opposed to attempting to PvP in quest gear. The quality of this gear should really only be rare(blue), in my opinion, offering a boost but still leaving room for improvement (ie. centurion, champion, battlemaster).
They said the same thing about operatives in the first 4 weeks of launch.

Geared operatives were destroying undergeared people which made the class overpowered. And the end result was "nerf"

Only now does someone like you realize the ultimate issue.

And that is a L2P issue.

All of the whiners got the 50's seperated and now the same arguement spawns again because new 50's haven't got it through their thick skulls you can't PVP in the 50's bracket with 11k HP. You can barely do it in full PVE gear as you do not have the damage reduction someone in full PVP gear has... Sure your damage numbers are there but your resistances are not. And these are factors most inexperienced PVP'ers ignore.

Don't Q for a warzone if you don't have level appropriate gear.

If you can't handle the 50's bracket then don't PVP.

This is afterall not a PVP game as so many people like to advocate.