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The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

Orangerascal's Avatar


Orangerascal
02.15.2012 , 05:25 AM | #211
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
Those vids prove everything! Screw experience, screw all the healers rerolling to sage and doing better. This video from pre 50 bracket proves everything!
I'm sure you have some sort of evidence. A survey, polls, maybe some metrics on alts ..... oh wait you don't.

You're accusing him of the same thing you're guilty of. In my world, we call that hypocrisy
Lace - Sage / Fleet - Scoundrel / Vaine - Guardian - www.jedilace.com
<Sphinx> - Tomb of the Freedon Nadd

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
02.15.2012 , 05:27 AM | #212
Quote: Originally Posted by SicNNasty View Post
snip
1.Few corrections:

KB adds 4 bars of resolve root or no root.

When resolve is full no KB or root happens

Breakable CC is useless for a class that must rely on dots. Thats why root has to be considered only 2s in any consideration

TT 1k crits happen only on ungeared light targets. same as 3k TK/CL hits. On heavy geared targets its 300/500. And im Rakata/BM geared.

You presume sage/sorc has been stationary channeling TT and procced POM AND has MC active (which again requires either induction or procced POM -> more standing around)

So, those numbers are not possible on the move. On the move even full balance sage drops to appalingly low DPS. Other classes spamming basic free attack have much more DPS on the move.

2. Can you post Sorc/Sage DPS count in next 5-6 GCDs provided he has to be on the move (slowed of course)

3. Yah, sorc/sage can prolly run away from everything, that apparently makes him OP, lets disregard the fact that theres very few classes that it can actually kill and no certain kill classes

4. Even in "super duper" DPS spec any sage/sorc worth their weight will tell you same thing: DPS is small compared to pretty much everything else and prime duty is utility

5. So if you want to take utility away you have to give DPS. That would only make more baddies QQ cause sages/sorcs would just kill em faster that they do now.

SicNNasty's Avatar


SicNNasty
02.15.2012 , 06:07 AM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMike View Post
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Quote: Originally Posted by Elrathion View Post
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You've both just proven the point I was trying to make.

1 He will run, you will not die, he's not doing to much dmg, and if he stops he dies. It was the point, it's a form of balance even if it isn't a very fun one for the melee chasing him. But what? Should that melee just let him do his thing and notice he did top DPS at the end of the match?

2 I voluntarily over shot the dmg of the sorc in my calaculation to prove my point: the sorc has no spike damage capable of killing a healed target unlike to marauder or sniper. (cf signature) The dmg is constant but lacks that extra "pow" to finish of the target.

3 Check my linked sorc spec which I used to reach valor 54. Yes it is the heavy CC, never OOM build, that's why I linked it so that peeps wouldn't feel the need to tell me what build uses it

4 Yes I do beleive Chain Lighting shouldn't proc on wrath. I feel Lighning Strike should have a 10-15% dmg increase to compensate. AoE dmg is just to high, when you end up using AoE skills on a single target (normal hybrid sorc rotation uses CL and DF even on single targets), then you know the AoE is doing to much dmg. Thoug what I would say is that I've come to laugh at sorcs who play this build vs my marauder: Kick the Force Lightning to reduce his chances of procing wrath, and when i does, I mitigate 30% of dmg from AoE, so he's using the extra 16 points of force to do the same dmg approximately as Lighning Strike would do, without proccing the Force Regen boost.

5 I personnaly don't care what anybody says, I know my own worth in a pvp enviroment (lol at the guy thinking pvp is of lesser quality on RP servers, come to daddy ^^), and I played sorc hybrid to valor 54, so yes I do know what I'm talking about when I say that the hybrid build is over powered in the following sense: it gives more: CC, DPS and Force management than any of the "normal" builds. It is my firm belief, and this since day one playing a sorc, that they are far to tanky for a Ranged DD.

Anyway, whether Bioware think that this makes sense or not is up to them, I think it's too much when in good hands, but then again, so is any class when it's well played.

Have fun and happy hunting!

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
02.15.2012 , 06:35 AM | #214
Quote: Originally Posted by SicNNasty View Post
You've both just proven the point I was trying to make.

1 He will run, you will not die, he's not doing to much dmg, and if he stops he dies. It was the point, it's a form of balance even if it isn't a very fun one for the melee chasing him. But what? Should that melee just let him do his thing and notice he did top DPS at the end of the match?

2 I voluntarily over shot the dmg of the sorc in my calaculation to prove my point: the sorc has no spike damage capable of killing a healed target unlike to marauder or sniper. (cf signature) The dmg is constant but lacks that extra "pow" to finish of the target.

3 Check my linked sorc spec which I used to reach valor 54. Yes it is the heavy CC, never OOM build, that's why I linked it so that peeps wouldn't feel the need to tell me what build uses it

4 Yes I do beleive Chain Lighting shouldn't proc on wrath. I feel Lighning Strike should have a 10-15% dmg increase to compensate. AoE dmg is just to high, when you end up using AoE skills on a single target (normal hybrid sorc rotation uses CL and DF even on single targets), then you know the AoE is doing to much dmg. Thoug what I would say is that I've come to laugh at sorcs who play this build vs my marauder: Kick the Force Lightning to reduce his chances of procing wrath, and when i does, I mitigate 30% of dmg from AoE, so he's using the extra 16 points of force to do the same dmg approximately as Lighning Strike would do, without proccing the Force Regen boost.

5 I personnaly don't care what anybody says, I know my own worth in a pvp enviroment (lol at the guy thinking pvp is of lesser quality on RP servers, come to daddy ^^), and I played sorc hybrid to valor 54, so yes I do know what I'm talking about when I say that the hybrid build is over powered in the following sense: it gives more: CC, DPS and Force management than any of the "normal" builds. It is my firm belief, and this since day one playing a sorc, that they are far to tanky for a Ranged DD.

Anyway, whether Bioware think that this makes sense or not is up to them, I think it's too much when in good hands, but then again, so is any class when it's well played.

Have fun and happy hunting!
1. And running away from sorc cause he has no chance IS fun?

2. Pretty much. thats why all utility is there and sorc needs to use it all to even stand a chance

3. I have smilar build and i am 63 valor without Ilum farming

4. Its not OP, 1 AoE is 3 targets free target 15s CD, another is 6s CD 5 targets with either POM proc or 3s cast time. Neither hits hard. Other skills are underpowered. Especially top tree skills. They need serious buff. Then its either/either.

5. see 4. hybrid is not OP, it has very simple general counter and quite a few hard class counters. Its not my fault that tarribads let me free channel whole WZ. In a bit advanced gameplay playing sage is...very challenging or you eat dirt during whole WZ.

What is underpowered are top tree skills and they need serious buff.

da_krall's Avatar


da_krall
02.15.2012 , 06:39 AM | #215
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
If you scroll up you'd see that the old thread reached 1000+ posts and the GM made restarted it in a new thread while locking the old one.
Yes there are lots of stupid people on the forums who try and get everything nerfed because it beat them instead of figuring out why it beat them.

Easiest class to kill as a sorc is a sorc....if you cant kill a sorc as your class you are a healer.

the sad thing is that bioware has no idea about its own game or it own pvp so they seem to just be listening to the *********** stupid masses.

me_unknown's Avatar


me_unknown
02.15.2012 , 06:41 AM | #216
actually it is not worth this discussion.

i never ever saw a skilled palyer whining about his class being underpowered or others overpowered EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE!

never!

skilled players may discuss certain aspects or even live with it but you can tell by how these overpowered cry posts are made that the authors have absolutely no clue about their class, the class they think is op and especially not about pvp at all!

so i beg all the others to stop wasting your time trying to explain things to people that do not want to listen and aren't able to comprehend what you are talking => less spam on the forums :P

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
02.15.2012 , 06:43 AM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by da_krall View Post
Yes there are lots of stupid people on the forums who try and get everything nerfed because it beat them instead of figuring out why it beat them.

Easiest class to kill as a sorc is a sorc....if you cant kill a sorc as your class you are a healer.

the sad thing is that bioware has no idea about its own game or it own pvp so they seem to just be listening to the *********** stupid masses.
Or the other sorc is a healer. Sustained low DPS<any healer spec.

da_krall's Avatar


da_krall
02.15.2012 , 06:48 AM | #218
Quote: Originally Posted by me_unknown View Post
actually it is not worth this discussion.

i never ever saw a skilled palyer whining about his class being underpowered or others overpowered EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE!

never!

skilled players may discuss certain aspects or even live with it but you can tell by how these overpowered cry posts are made that the authors have absolutely no clue about their class, the class they think is op and especially not about pvp at all!

so i beg all the others to stop wasting your time trying to explain things to people that do not want to listen and aren't able to comprehend what you are talking => less spam on the forums :P
most of them are probably PvEers who are surpirsed they can die as it hasnt happened in PvE for the past 2 months.....

Though that isnt totally fair as the PvP community has turned to **** over the last 10 years. No teamwork, no studying builds, no studying opponents....just post NERF.

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
02.15.2012 , 06:59 AM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by da_krall View Post
most of them are probably PvEers who are surpirsed they can die as it hasnt happened in PvE for the past 2 months.....

Though that isnt totally fair as the PvP community has turned to **** over the last 10 years. No teamwork, no studying builds, no studying opponents....just post NERF.
Heeey, BW made class and spec just for these - merc/commando

Lormif's Avatar


Lormif
02.15.2012 , 07:09 AM | #220
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
Actually they started with the lore crap first. I didn't even like the extended universe outside one series. But if they are going to use lore to prove their point? They may as well be right...
This crap again, THE PRO NERF SIDE STARTED THE LORE.