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Healing - the worst imbalance in PVP history, in it's current form

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Healing - the worst imbalance in PVP history, in it's current form

pavelmatejka's Avatar


pavelmatejka
02.15.2012 , 03:58 AM | #121
I play as healer and I love the pvp 1vs1 balance. I can be defeated by 1 dps if he has skill but I stress the importance ot this he doesnt have a free kill and he can die fighting me. Is that so bad? In my experience I cant just stand in one place and cast heals/dps I need to work for it I need to move get out of line of sight fakecast to trick him into interupting my non heal abbilities rather than healz. I mett players in fights who can kill me some cant is that simple. Just just accept the chalenge. Do you realy need the oh theres a healer hes dead no matter what he does ha I feel so great and powerful!

RadialBasis's Avatar


RadialBasis
02.15.2012 , 04:07 AM | #122
That was a very long post, so I didn't read all of it as I don't have a problem with healing (although some of them seem to never die). I have one comment though (maybe someone else already pointed it out). The op states that:

Quote: Originally Posted by endikux View Post
The point is that you have one side of the equation which is unlimited.
Which is simply not true. Damage dealing is also unlimited over infinite time. Moreover, both dps and hps are constrained.

KyoMamoru's Avatar


KyoMamoru
02.15.2012 , 04:09 AM | #123
The main issue is that healing requires very little effort to do in regards to team tactics, while stopping it is significantly harder. Let's assume a typical situation

Squad A) Guarded Healer + Tank.
Squad B) DPS + DPS

The Optimal solution is that one DPS stuns the tank [to prevent taunts], while the other interrupts the Healer, and begins to dps. The second DPS then joins and interrupts the second heal attempt while dpsing. Once the tank is unstunned [3-4 gcds], the first DPS goes and uses his stun on him again before turning back to the Healer to DPS. During this time, it is important that if they have any dots that require GCD to place them on both the Healer and the tank.

The issue is, it is substantially harder to have two dps players operate efficiently in tandem without pushing the Healer into Resolve or wasting their interrupt on the same move; however the Healer/Tank combo merely spams taunts and heals without the use of any planning prior. It's ever so important that the tank cannot get his taunts out, since those are the true damage killers once factored into Guard. Everyone blows their best abilities at the start of the fight, and so a burst can become a joke after a taunt.

Even still, the easiest strategy is to always dot the healer, dot the Tank, and AOE. The tank will receive damage 1.5x the usual damage from the dots, while still taking the damage that is being handed to him from the healer. As a Hybrid Operative Healer, I can have 7k worth of dots [ticks done in 20 seconds] on the Healer and Tank within 3 global cooldowns. As long as others are focusing down the healer, the tank won't be able to receive the attention he needs. By placing dots first, you vastly ignore the damage reduction of taunts as well.

Just like in Team Fortress 2, Medic + Heavy > PUB Teams. They'll dominant, since it requires coordinated tactics to defeat the synergy.

Vordy's Avatar


Vordy
02.15.2012 , 04:11 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by endikux View Post
I love how a discussion of a mechanic which differs from the norm is always answered with "you suck".

At least you took the time to read something. It's a pretty sad commentary on the level of intelligence today when there is an acronym for something being too long to hold someone's 3rd grade attention span.

My scenario is very simplified and the details of the combat are meaningless. The overall point is entirely true. A healer can outheal a dps while taking down his life. Maybe you can avoid this in every one of your fights, but you aren't every dps character in the game. If you are contending that every character type in the game can defeat every healer type in the game "if he knows what he is doing", then that is a very tall claim to make.
Well, some people do clearly suck when they say something is inbalanced, if you cant kill a healer than you probably dont have a full champion set yet which means you shouldnt qq until you have one...

Viree's Avatar


Viree
02.15.2012 , 04:13 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Mohawksinspace View Post
The goal of PvP balance is to always want the better PLAYER.

Not healer/dps/class/spec.
Only way that will ever be achievable is if they scale all equipment to be exactly equivalent. And then fix any inconsistencies with class damage/heal abilities.

And that will never happen.

Ziljin's Avatar


Ziljin
02.15.2012 , 04:18 AM | #126
I completely agree with the OP and it seems so obvious that it boggles my mind that people would disagree. We had the same problem in WoW. Why they decided to repeat it is beyond me.

RealAeiouy's Avatar


RealAeiouy
02.15.2012 , 04:22 AM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by KyoMamoru View Post
The main issue is that healing requires very little effort to do in regards to team tactics, while stopping it is significantly harder. Let's assume a typical situation

Squad A) Guarded Healer + Tank.
Squad B) DPS + DPS

The Optimal solution is that one DPS stuns the tank [to prevent taunts], while the other interrupts the Healer, and begins to dps. The second DPS then joins and interrupts the second heal attempt while dpsing. Once the tank is unstunned [3-4 gcds], the first DPS goes and uses his stun on him again before turning back to the Healer to DPS. During this time, it is important that if they have any dots that require GCD to place them on both the Healer and the tank.

The issue is, it is substantially harder to have two dps players operate efficiently in tandem without pushing the Healer into Resolve or wasting their interrupt on the same move; however the Healer/Tank combo merely spams taunts and heals without the use of any planning prior. It's ever so important that the tank cannot get his taunts out, since those are the true damage killers once factored into Guard. Everyone blows their best abilities at the start of the fight, and so a burst can become a joke after a taunt.

Even still, the easiest strategy is to always dot the healer, dot the Tank, and AOE. The tank will receive damage 1.5x the usual damage from the dots, while still taking the damage that is being handed to him from the healer. As a Hybrid Operative Healer, I can have 7k worth of dots [ticks done in 20 seconds] on the Healer and Tank within 3 global cooldowns. As long as others are focusing down the healer, the tank won't be able to receive the attention he needs. By placing dots first, you vastly ignore the damage reduction of taunts as well.

Just like in Team Fortress 2, Medic + Heavy > PUB Teams. They'll dominant, since it requires coordinated tactics to defeat the synergy.
It is signigicantly easier to effectively dps than it is to heal.
I put the AssAssIn assassin.

zoofar's Avatar


zoofar
02.15.2012 , 04:22 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by Ziljin View Post
I completely agree with the OP and it seems so obvious that it boggles my mind that people would disagree. We had the same problem in WoW. Why they decided to repeat it is beyond me.
Is the message that you are of the opinion - and the OP - that healing needs to be toned down in PvP?

If so, the OP has won a medal for most complicated way to post an opinion ever.
Peace

Lochat's Avatar


Lochat
02.15.2012 , 04:39 AM | #129
Ugh, challengers posting about balance.

KyoMamoru's Avatar


KyoMamoru
02.15.2012 , 04:40 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by RealAeiouy View Post
It is signigicantly easier to effectively dps than it is to heal.
To mindlessly Dps a dummy with a simple rotation, yes; however to actually DPS in tandem with another to take down a Healer+Tank? I think not. The ease of use certainly goes to the Healer/Tank combo over the dps/dps. The healer/Tank will hit their optimal configuration far easier than the Dps/dps, since it ultimately falls down to the Healer using LOS to absorb less damage while ccing/doting/slowing dps threats, and the tank taunting/pulling/ccing/aoeing. Timing is left to the Dps/dps to figure out, since that's the only way to take down the Healer without taking a significantly longer period of time to do so. The longer a fight goes on, the better off the Healer/Tank will be, while the DPS/DPS needs properly timed CC/Burst to win.

A random Healer/tank can work through not having voice chat or having teamed together prior far easier than a dps/dps can. I don't see it as an issue, since the Healer/Tank is supposed to be a force multiplier, while the Dps/dps is just straight additive. It requires high levels of cooperation to make two DPS work together in the same regards.