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The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.15.2012 , 01:28 AM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
George Lucas has already said that Anakin had roughly twice the force potential as Palpatine but after his duel with Obi-Wan he was left with about 80% of the potential as Palpatine. Luke on the other hand has the same force potential as his father before the injuries per Lucas.

But what would Lucas know. He only created the Star Wars Universe...

Seeing that Palpatine is about as strong as you can get without being "born of the force" or Anakin's son?

Pretty safe to say Luke became the most powerful character in the Star Wars Universe EVER. BTW at the time Anakin got halved? He would have never beat the emperor.

Just because at one time Vader was stronger then Luke and Luke may have said Anakin/Vader was at that point in the story stronger, doesn't mean Luke didn't become stupidly more powerful later on. Want to argue with someone about it? Take it up with Lucas. Reading comprehension fail and taking things out of context fail.

GG...
Anakin Solo is a direct descendant of Anakin Skywalker. And Luke himself said that Anakin Solo was more powerful than himself. And Lucas approved all of NJO, so GG again.


EDIT: Oh I read your post again, and you think I mean Anaking Skywalker. But I am talking about Leia and Han's third son, Anakin Solo. BTW, Jacen and Jaine were also both direct descendants of Anakin Skywalker. Thanks for thinking my reading comprehension fails though big buddy.

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
02.15.2012 , 01:29 AM | #142
PS: What server are you playing on, cause like, I never see you and stuff.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
02.15.2012 , 01:29 AM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Telaan View Post
They're a melee class. They don't need an escape. Escapes are for ranged classes.
Except for Assassins and Operatives. PTs pull enemies into them and I'm guessing that's why they don't have an escape. Juggernauts get Force Push.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
02.15.2012 , 01:30 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by TetraCleric View Post
Anakin Solo is a direct descendant of Anakin Skywalker. And Luke himself said that Anakin Solo was more powerful than himself. And Lucas approved all of NJO, so GG again.
....!! orly !!....

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
02.15.2012 , 01:30 AM | #145
Enough with the lore please.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

kickinhead's Avatar


kickinhead
02.15.2012 , 01:31 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
So you're saying to counter a Sorcerer's CC you need another Sorcerer's CC? Well I'll definitely be trying that out. I can't believe I never thought of it. We all roll Sorcerers so that Sorcerer CC isn't as impossible to deal with. While we're at it let's just petition Bioware to remove all other ACs from the game. Someone might accidentally pick something other than a Sorcerer.

/sarcasm

^ Sorry. Had to be done so I could have my lulz.

In all seriousness in a group scenario the side with more Sorcerers wins. You said it yourself. If a Sorcerer is mass CCing you then you need a Sorcerer yourself to counteract it. Three Sorcerers against One Sorcerer and Two other DPS usually ends up being the Three Sorcerers winning. In large scale battles a Sorcerer provides more than any other class for the group. In tactical PvP Sorcerer mobility and CC wins games. They're simply the best PvP class. With the two talent's I'm campaigning against they're just the best at everything by an incredible margin.

Do you really think that if hybrid Sorcerers lost access to a 5 second root on knockback and a 3 second AoE immobilize on a bubble pop/click off they would be underpowered? No. They would still be the best PvP class, just not by such a gigantic margin. What I'm asking for would simply bring them down to Earth. They're currently miles ahead of everyone.

The big thing that people seem to be ignoring is exactly what I'm asking for with this post.

Not a single person since this thread's creation has given reasons for why this specific change I'm requesting is too much.

Not a single person has given me reasons as to why hybrid spec Sorcerers NEED these two talents.

Not a single person has explained why these two specific talents are balanced. When no other AoE root exists on such a low cooldown. When no other AoE mezz comes close to the power of "Backlash".

I want someone to explain to me how an AoE mezz that comes from a pre-castable bubble on a 20 second cooldown for self cast is balanced in a game where the closest thing is a 1.5 minute cooldown AoE mezz on a class with no other fire and forget CC. I want someone to explain how having this same AoE mezz be triggered by casting a bubble on SOMEONE ELSE(this has a cooldown of 4.5 seconds) is balanced. Explain why Sorcerers NEED this.

For those of you that STILL haven't fully read the main post the two talents I'm talking about are "Backlash" and "Electric Bindings". If you haven't already, please read it.
So much Facepalm in your post shows me that you simply don't know how to play...

1) Sorcerer Mass-CC? Never heard of that since Sorc can only single-target CC compared to other classes which have AoE-CC. Unless you mean bubble/force-wave stun, but that would mean you and your team just bash on the same target with 2+ melee cars even though they have the bubble on themselves and the cooldown of Force-Wave is finished, but that would be stupid, so it can't be that... right?
2) I didn't say you need Sorc-CC to counter Sorc-CC, but removing it with a dispell of the Sorc and since PvP in SWTOR is team-based, there is no Problem with that.
3) Bubble only Stuns Targets near the Sorc, so don't try to pressure a sorc down with 4 Melee at a time.
4) Sorcerers badly need stuff to counter spike-DMG, such as the bubble-stun, since they have almost no healing-potential in under 1 Second. SO while DMG can be dished out with instants that easily deal 2500+ DMG (by 6 ppl in a balanced team with about 2 Healers), the Sorc can heal 1500 after 1.5 Seconds: Do you see the Problem with Sorc not being able to deal ANY burstheal? Probably not, cuz you don't want to see it.
5) Sorcs are the main target most of the times and with constant slow/Interrupts/CC/Stuns by the opponent, it's crucial to have at least 1 Sorc in the team with bubble-stun, just so the Sorc can MAYBE get out 1 Heal on itself, but with decent Ranged-DD's that actually use their very powerful interrupts, this will of course also be interrupted, so even the Stun on the knockback (which ends with DMG after 2 Seconds btw.) is in no way, shape or form OP.
6) As I've said: a decent Support-Player will be able to remove the Stun/CC very easily
7) It's also quite easy to chain-Stun or preemptively CC a sorc before/during a spike so the bubble cannot be placed on the target - simple way to remove ANY burstheal possible by the Sorc.
8) It's also almost impossible to get a decent Skill-build of the Sorc which has access to both bubble-stun and the reduced Might-Cost and Cooldown of the bubble and also heave good Mana-Management: Just switch targets fast and the Sorc will run out of Mana casting bubbles like crazy.
9) the bubble has a lockdown-duration of at least 17 Seconds with the right gear on any target, that means 17 Seconds of NO bubble once it's gone. Switch targets with Melee once the bubble is cast and snipe the bubble away with Ranged-DD, this should take 1-2 Seconds; now you have a target that cannot be protected by the bubble, which limits the burst-heal/prot potential of a Sorc to pretty much Zero. This is the reason why a Sorc should NEVER preemptively bubble a player, but only targets that are getting spiked and are as close to death as possible, so you can heal the target up. This bubble during the Spike can be dealt with be good target-picking, CC/Stun/Knockback etc. Even if the bubble gets on the target during the spike though, ranged DD's should easily be able to dish out enough DMG to kill the target in a well-orchestrated spike.

Srsly: I wish ppl would think a bit about the potential of teamplay and how to play smart before they start ranting.

TetraCleric's Avatar


TetraCleric
02.15.2012 , 01:31 AM | #147
MOAR LORE is what you meant to say.

Paulman's Avatar


Paulman
02.15.2012 , 01:32 AM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
A hybrid is mobile. A mobile class does not need an AoE mezz like that. A mobile class doesn't need that on top of what they already have.
Anyone is mobile. I'm missing your point. Are you talking about force speed? All sorc/sages get it. Also assasin/shadows get it. As I stated already, melee classes have a way to close the distance. A Sorc/sage can't fly over to targets like a mara/sent can.

Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
02.15.2012 , 01:33 AM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Except for Assassins and Operatives. PTs pull enemies into them and I'm guessing that's why they don't have an escape. Juggernauts get Force Push.
Assassins and Ops are totally different beasts whos classes are built on stealth. Not close to the same thing. PTs and Jugs don't have escapes.

The point of this isn't really to discuss force camo as I honestly have no problem with it. But, when you go down the line of logic you've taken, there is no need for that escape skill for a class as devastatingly powerful as mara/sent.
Kype Lightwave/Telaan Lightwave -Pot5- "Pistols' RP Apprentice"
Telaan Lightwave Pre-CU Jedi Knight -JKO- Bloodfin
Master LS/Master Healer/Enhancer 4xx4

Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
02.15.2012 , 01:34 AM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
PS: What server are you playing on, cause like, I never see you and stuff.
Hedaar soongh or some backwater server like that. I want to roll a toon on fatman. Worth it?

[ ] yes
[ ] no
[ ] maybe
[ ] only interested in making out by the monkey bars
Kype Lightwave/Telaan Lightwave -Pot5- "Pistols' RP Apprentice"
Telaan Lightwave Pre-CU Jedi Knight -JKO- Bloodfin
Master LS/Master Healer/Enhancer 4xx4