The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

That's actually a larger value than you can get now. Pre-surge nerf players with high surge could crit very hard with WrathCL procs but it's a significant amount lower now. I'd say the average player will be getting maybe 3.5-4k now.

For reference the 3.2k was pre-surge nerf, but I usually stacked power if I had the chance.

You mean like Luke being by far the strongest Jedi or Sith ever. What was he?

How about Caedus?

About the only person that was a total bada@$ in lore that didn't totally rely on melee was palpatine and he still used melee and Cbaoth but Luke would have clownstomped him with melee when he was older (see Yuuzhan Vong War).

I seem to remember one Sith saying to one Jedi that their fight would have to move to lightsabers because the force was useless...Maybe you can help me with that "lore expert". I guess that doesn't count because it is from the films. In another fight Yoda and Palpatine got the sabers out. Why?

BTW all the extended universe books sucked outside of Zahn's (fantastic books) and the only reason I read them all the way through was boredom.

In lore? Non melee are weaksauce. So yeah. Good call.

yah, lets do this 1more time lol

^are u just makeing that up or did a dev say it^

Leave the bubble alone, the bubble is not the problem here, it is hybrid sage/sorc that is.

in the lore outside of the films. How about the solo twins? Jacen was actually the most powerful that I know of, he became one with the force while living.

That can be done much easier and much safer, you seem to forget that people that play hybrids do it for

1. Instant Cast CL
2. CC

Moving the no cooldown talent up to 31 points WILL NOT KILL HYBRIDS WHEN YOU CAN STILL GET THE INSTANT CAST AOE's
It makes DoT full madness a late bloomer, not hybrids. And thats what needs to be toned down.
I think we can agree with that.
But the solution needs to be in a safe zone that makes it undesirable to go 11/20/11
Thats what Im fishing for, and no one has delivered.
Nothing is wrong with full madness thats correct..
Easier than Merc/Commando's?

Your funny..

Then your solutions should be better.
No rudeness intended but your solutions dont fix the full problem.

You only switch the time it takes to cast and Instant cast AoE.
and you make it more desirable to go madness/ lighting..

Two roots will be what they gain in your switch.
Thats a problem
I cant even fathom the INSANE control this class would have with TWO roots.

I'm sorry it wouldnt kill the class, my apologies..it would only switch the way people leveled. It still doesnt kill hybrids though.

Tried them out in beta.

I was one of the people that wanted a change to them BECAUSE they were late bloomers.
Its hard to compete in low levels..

But this game isnt balanced around low levels either.
It takes a a few hours to get from 1-20
around a day to go from 20-30
same for 30-40

its only at 45-50 that it slows down ( IMO again some people in my guild say its 30-40 thats the worst).
I have a lvl 50 Assassin. Its not an early flower, nor a late bloomer ( unless you go Deception).

That all being said.
No other class in this game requires the skill curve it takes to play a sentinal or guardian ( and their mirrors).
But IF you master them, you pretty much laugh at everything thrown at you. I watched Lina tear people to shreds, and win huttball games in a matter of 5 minutes ( or less) with a juggurnaut.

No other class will ever be as steep as them.
No matter what you move,change, or lower.
They are hardmode. Its what the pro's on my server are rerolling to and for good reason.

That's probably why. The sorcs I was using as an example were former surge stackers that wanted the big crits more than the sustained damage that power offered.

lmao how many of you play it ?as there is like 40total people posted out of.both threads. So how many of you QQers that have PLAYED the class past level 15.

Let's take a pole screan shot your level of sorc , then let's see your /played on it and let's have a look at your valor so we van see if you even pvp.

First I do not think sorcs are op. Hybrid or other.
So
WE DO NOT won't class balance any ways we won't group/team balance. Rock paper scissors beats class any day.

Stop being bad ie pug solo Rambo hero and group up.

So many things in this game needing more time spent on it then classes .

This game is dieing, PvP sucks , Illum is a vary vary bad joke, and your QQing that sorcs have a cc you dont. That they do 1/2 the dmg a ops can, use light armor and the lowest life in the game.

Just for ***** and giggles I started calling sorcs op in Illum today, even said the patch nots for test said they was nerfing sorcs over the QQing on the forums.

No one liked the idea of it not a single player out of the 80+ there. O and there was 10 sorcs there out of them all.
Other then weekly I don't play my sorc now as they just don't do the dps I can get from my assassin. O and ya he's a hybrid to , that nerf didt stop me from making a good hybrid spec .

So in short keep trolling the QQ out there , this game is dead for PvP if they do not fix it soon any ways.

Luke was pretty much god incarnate. He had the same force potential as Anakin per Lucas. Was Jacen born of the force LOL.

This is where you can bring speculation that Anakin's birth was basically created in a lab but it is all non canon and reaching. It wouldn't matter anyways as noone else but Anakin's son would have the power to basically be born of the force.

Luke > everyone else but an Anakin (who would have reached his potential, and per Lucas would have been equal not greater) and it isn't even close. It was a Arthurian messianic tale about a messianic figure. Who was that messiah? Luke. No different then Rand al' THOR in the Wheel of Time series, or Jon Snow in A song of fire and ice (he is the son of rhaegar and lyanaa, but that is going to be the plot twist and is not yet known, even in the books).

The only reason so many people love Jacen is he is an emo antihero. Same people probably like Twilight.

Luke could have killed Jacen in seconds. Do not pass go. He was the messiah of the whole series. He would have killed Revan in seconds as well.