Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Healing - the worst imbalance in PVP history, in it's current form

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Healing - the worst imbalance in PVP history, in it's current form

Mohawksinspace's Avatar


Mohawksinspace
02.14.2012 , 09:33 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Dackius View Post
I don't really care for the L2Play responses, but you must have terrible gear, or no idea how to play if you're complaining about healing in this game.

Healers suffer a 30% reduction to their heals for just BEING in pvp. Healers Heals, also do not scale with damage... Example. Primary stats + Power give MORE damage, than they do healing, and the abilities themselves do not heal for as much as the damage abilities do damage.

You explain an example for how the DPS does 14k damage to the healer, and then healer stuns you, heals for 2k, 3, and a couple of 1k.... You were out of the stun at the 2nd heal, so what where you doing? Also, the heal is not hurting you while he's healing himself.... So, you should still win without a problem.

The only way you should be dying to a healer is because they aren't actually a healer, but are a DPS specced person that has a heal, or potion, or you are fighting a healer while a DPS friend is killing you.

Trust me... even bad dps beats a healer 1v1... Healing only stalls for time, but will never kill you. If the healer could kill you while healing themself, it's a massive gear difference or a terrible playing... either way, a change to healing would have lead to the same result.
A healer in the hands of a truely good player cannot be killed 1v1 by anything except maybe ops/scoundrels for their sheer burst.

I am not saying all those can't do this are bad, im sure above average players can still lose the fight against a good pvp, but on a field of equal skill, the healer has the advantage.
Ma'iq - Sith Assassin
Darkness - Gardens of Talla
CC Tips:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283501

Bloodtau's Avatar


Bloodtau
02.14.2012 , 09:41 PM | #62
Healing is out of control in pvp in this game. If they don't fix it soon their sinking ship of a game will sink even faster. I predict half of the people still paying their sub this month WON'T be renewing.

Mohawksinspace's Avatar


Mohawksinspace
02.14.2012 , 09:41 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Obbu View Post
Your examples assume that the healer can:
  • heal themselves effectively while being DPSed (they cannot)
  • heal themselves at all while being interrupted (they cannot)
  • DPS effectively while managing to heal themselves effectively (they cannot)

Not to mention that the situation assumes 1v1, greatly impacting the healer's chances of competing, and also assuming non-standard pvp gameplay in a team game.

Healing in pvp is already far more difficult than in most games.
Hes not trying to say the healer can or cant overcome the dps via cc and tactical choices by both players. So he is not assuming anything.

He is delivering a concept on the fundamental mechanics of healing by measuring potential resources.
Ma'iq - Sith Assassin
Darkness - Gardens of Talla
CC Tips:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283501

bellok's Avatar


bellok
02.14.2012 , 09:42 PM | #64
Big wall of text......bottom line is that all healing classes are good for certain roles. For example bh/commando healing classes were meant to complement sage/sorc healing, not exceed it. There are certain things a sage/sorc cannot do, and that is to take on more than 2 players. They can't take the spike damage because their heals believe it or not don't heal for a lot.(3-4k heals versus 5-10k incoming dps) However give them an accompanying bh/commando, and even a smuggler they can actually tank quite a bit. This is important for some cases like holding down the fort guarding turrets, and doors. I think smugglers and bh/commandos can heal for the big spike damage for a short time while sage is heal over time, and area of effect with more time to heal. So really if you are complaining about not healing as well as a sage/sorc then you are playing the wrong class, or you simply do not understand your role....

Bloodtau's Avatar


Bloodtau
02.14.2012 , 09:42 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Mohawksinspace View Post
A healer in the hands of a truely good player cannot be killed 1v1 by anything except maybe ops/scoundrels for their sheer burst.

I am not saying all those can't do this are bad, im sure above average players can still lose the fight against a good pvp, but on a field of equal skill, the healer has the advantage.
Not really. With biowares stupid though out surge nerf they can't be killed by ANYTHING now.

Mohawksinspace's Avatar


Mohawksinspace
02.14.2012 , 09:43 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If a healer consistently loses quickly in a 1on1 against a DPS, there would literally be no reason to ever play a healer. You'd always be better off replacing the healer with a DPS since a DPS can always beat a healer quickly.

Even against very good healers, if they do beat me 1on1 it usually takes them several minutes to pull it off. They can also lose after a long fight too (Sorcerer more likely to lose through attrition).

Since interrupts have nothing to do with skill or gear (gear/skill cannot prevent interrupts from happening to you)), even a tie is sometimes a loss for the healer. If my side put our worst DPS who is at least good enough to know what heals to interrupt against your best healer, he can neutralize the enemy's best healer for a pretty long time and we'd certainly have an advantage everywhere else if our worst DPS canceled out their best healer.
The goal of PvP balance is to always want the better PLAYER.

Not healer/dps/class/spec.
Ma'iq - Sith Assassin
Darkness - Gardens of Talla
CC Tips:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283501

Fancyhuh's Avatar


Fancyhuh
02.14.2012 , 09:46 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Bloodtau View Post
Healing is out of control in pvp in this game. If they don't fix it soon their sinking ship of a game will sink even faster. I predict half of the people still paying their sub this month WON'T be renewing.
I've heard this one before, maybe it was on one of those other 1000 QQ posts.

LoL-K-Noob's Avatar


LoL-K-Noob
02.14.2012 , 09:46 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Mohawksinspace View Post
A healer in the hands of a truely good player cannot be killed 1v1 by anything except maybe ops/scoundrels for their sheer burst.

I am not saying all those can't do this are bad, im sure above average players can still lose the fight against a good pvp, but on a field of equal skill, the healer has the advantage.
This is a straight up lie. It may come down to the healer running out of energy before death, but that depends on your class and LoS/snare issues.

Source: personal experience against many battlemaster Imps on my server I beat 1v1.

Bloodtau's Avatar


Bloodtau
02.14.2012 , 09:50 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Fancyhuh View Post
I've heard this one before, maybe it was on one of those other 1000 QQ posts.
Seems you're the only one whining here.
Constructive posts, look it up.

Xippin's Avatar


Xippin
02.14.2012 , 09:51 PM | #70
I'll stick with your "track" comparison to keep things relatively simple for you. Your problem is, you are comparing 2 different types of runners. You are viewing a relatively diverse world consisting of different races, classes, goals and passions as something it is not. Simply put, you are saying that there should only be one type of "runner" in this race, when in all reality the MMORPG is actually a track competition and not a race itself in a sense. Because of the MMORPG's diversity, you end up with 3 basic types of runners.

DPS: This type of runner is a 100 meter dash runner, his goal is to get to the finish line as fast as possible by burning as much energy (damage) in as short a time as possible to beat their opponent.

Tank: This type of runner is a 5 - 10 kilometer runner. They maintain a decent pace over a longer distance, but can not run as fast as the 100 meter dash runner. Their goal is to have the stamina and endurance to run 5 - 10 kilometers at a moderate pace, hence outlasting their opponent.

Healer: This type of runner is your full 26.2 mile runner. They maintain a slightly slower pace then the 5 - 10 kilometer runner, and vastly slower pace then the 100 meter dash runner. Their goal is to complete a full 26.2 miles without pause.

Now to your other topic of reseting, the race. Your logic is severely flawed in this due to the poor comparison of healing output vs damage output. The real comparison to be used, since this is a track competition and not a single minded race as you would have it, would be WARZONE or ILUM player vs player combat since they are both focused on GROUP/TEAM combat.

Lets assume group make-up is not balanced in role assignments, since it rarely is, but since skill is something that will at times play in your favor, and at times play against your favor depending on your team; we must assume that it will balance the ups and downs out.

Group 1 Group 2
Tank Tank
Healer Healer
Healer DPS
DPS DPS
DPS DPS
DPS DPS
DPS DPS
DPS DPS

60 Second Combat Scenario

DPS Deal 10 damage over 60 seconds
Tanks Deal 6 damage over 60 seconds
Healers Recover 10 damage over 60 seconds
(Since as you say, healers completely eliminate a DPS's damage)

Group 1 Does 56 Damage While Recovering 20
Group 2 Does 66 Damage While Recovering 10

Group 1 and group 2 both have 100 health at start, lets see where they fall at the end of the 60 seconds.

Group 1 (100-66)+20= 54 Health Remaining
Group 2 (100-56)+10= 54 Health Remaining

So, in the end, essentially what happens is they both end on equal footing because the team with more DPS balances out the additional healer. Now we can through in taunts/guards etc, but that's all irrelevant to your original logic that Healers change the race.

Your problem is NOT that healers create an un-balanced playing field, it's that a lack of skill creates a challenge for you and/or your team and you do not like to adjust tactics.
Xippin - BH: Powertech; Shield Tech / Smuggler: Scoundrel; Scrapper