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Punish PPL leaving WZ - FAIL idea.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Punish PPL leaving WZ - FAIL idea.
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Kelticfury's Avatar


Kelticfury
02.13.2012 , 03:56 PM | #61
I quit paying attention when you started quoting mythology in giant red text.

MPagano's Avatar


MPagano
02.13.2012 , 04:02 PM | #62
OP, I appreciate your attempt at approaching this embattled subject. However, I don't see any points in here that address the issue which has fomented such outcry for deserter debuff.

The warzone experience has so deteriorated that, on many servers, there's no comeback scenario anymore. There's no situation where you give up the first 1 (or 2) huttball points only to knuckledown and turn the tides. For me, and many players, this type of momentum shift is a hallmark of exciting pvp.

When players are allowed to "fast forward" or "skip" to the next warzone by leaving one and joining another, you breed a demographic who see nothing wrong with quitting until they stick in a winning one. I've actually seen a play drop out of my huttball team and join on the other team shortly thereafter (this is obviously not in control by the player, but he effectively switched to the winning team).

I ask you, is this sort of pvp culture acceptable? Is this a community behavior that, if allowed to continue, will be able to provide any sort of sustainable and competitive environment? I don't think you could reasonably answer "yes".

Is this debuff the best solution? Probably not. Is it tried and true? Yes. Since WoW first incorporated this idea (and it's worth noting that it was in response to the exact same phenomenon), many games have copied the idea successfully.

This is a pretty urgent issue. Each week that passes only breeds more of this behavior as players take the "why not me" attitude without considering the bigger picture or greater good. If we agree that we want a meaningful and consistent pvp and WZ experience, I don't see how you can deny the importance of this type of mechanic.

Thoughts?

TheRFC's Avatar


TheRFC
02.13.2012 , 04:07 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by EternalFinality View Post
That you think it's ok to do whatever you want just because "it's a game" is exactly why you aren't a decent person.

You...didn't know?

I really hope you're purposely trolling me ... no one can seriously be this thick.

Again, when did I say 'do what you want, it's only a game!'

Firstly, if we're being perfectly honest, it IS only a game and you're basing a person's morality on whether they stay in a SWTOR WZ. So everyone who stays in are necessarily a 'decent person' then? I'd have fun with you arguing semantics but it really doesn't feel fulfilling if you actually do have the intellectual equivalency of a kashu nut, as is suggested by your posts so far.

My point WAS that if you start punishing people for leaving, they won't leave. They'll just stay and AFK ---> instead of them leaving and someone else who may want to play coming in you'll just be stuck with 2-3 or maybe more AFKers.

If they really want to go, LET THEM GO! This isn't Auschwitz!

Your suggestion? Report them. On Alderaan and VS there are so many ways that you can get around even being noticed for AFKing. Huttball is easier because most parts of the map are in use so you spot most AFKers at the sides just outside the spawn else they'll get dragged into the action. In VS - just don't move along with the action when a door gets taken. Who'd be keeping tabs? Alderaan? There are PLENTY of places. Am I meant to be fighting people AND scouring the map to make sure no-one is AFKing?

Engage brain, THEN type.

ViperI's Avatar


ViperI
02.13.2012 , 04:11 PM | #64
People who want to punish others for leaving early are doing it out of spite and only looking for revenge. They want to inflict damage onto those whom they feel have slighted them. They're not considering how it would affect the game overall. I'll tell you one thing, though, these same people wanting deserter penalties will cry a river when it happens to them after a random disconnect or when they're trying to group with friends and they accidentally forgot to uncheck the "Requeue warzone" button. Then they'll come out with all the exceptions that need to be coded into the system and complicated hypothetical scenarios for when the penalty is applicable and when it isn't. In the end, a deserter penalty adds nothing to the game, it solves nothing (people will still leave early) and it adds a lot of extra work/code to the game.

All that said, a better solution is already in place. When someone leaves, the matchmaking system continues to add people to the match to fill empty slots. As long as one side is outnumbered, the game works to even up both sides.
Viper 1
Frozen In Carbonite

TheRFC's Avatar


TheRFC
02.13.2012 , 04:12 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelticfury View Post
I quit paying attention when you started quoting mythology in giant red text.

'EVERYONE! I'm an ATHIEST and need everyone to KNOW that I've read a HITCHENS book!'

True-story?

IMO, Bertrand Russel puts forward far better arguments. Or maybe even check out Thomas Paines 'Age of Reason' so yuz can pwetend to be all cultured and stuff


Yours,

- An athiest who doesn't need to shout about it at every opportunity

Erasimus's Avatar


Erasimus
02.13.2012 , 04:15 PM | #66
I read the OPs arguments and don't agree. I do believe there should be a penalty for "deserting" 30 minutes should be sufficient that is about the equivalent of 2 WZs.

Yes it would seem unfair to those few that get DC'd or have to log out then back into the game. To my mind this is far less onerous than having to put up with the increasing number of people that immediately leave as soon as they perceive a momentum swing.

Heck I see people leaving Voidstar as soon as a single door is down if it is round one. When that happens it definitely increases the probability of losing.

There are a few measures that I think should be taken in addition to the deserter debuff (and yes they come from WoW, not everything the comes from that source is bad).

1. AFK - reporting. If you are reported AFK and don't do any healing/damage/movement you are booted and given a deserter debuff and no credit for the WZ.

2. DC's/Relogs - If you DC have a say 1 or 2 minute window where if you reconnect you are placed back into the WZ.

Not perfect solutions, but a bit better than some of the losing WZs I've stayed in where there are 20-25 people on the final screen because people started leaving at the first sign they may not be on the winning side.
"Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself."

ViperI's Avatar


ViperI
02.13.2012 , 04:17 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by MPagano View Post
There's no situation where you give up the first 1 (or 2) huttball points only to knuckledown and turn the tides. For me, and many players, this type of momentum shift is a hallmark of exciting pvp.
That's not true. I'll share my own experiences. I was in a match with some guildmates and we were down 4-2 with 1 minute remaining in huttball. I scored with just under a minute, and our team was already setup in position to fastrack pass another score as soon as it respawned. I died after my first score, ran back to the center and grabbed the ball with 10 seconds remaining in the game. We won a 4-4 tiebreak because we controlled the middle and I was able to hold the ball at the end.
Viper 1
Frozen In Carbonite

Kelticfury's Avatar


Kelticfury
02.13.2012 , 04:19 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRFC View Post
'EVERYONE! I'm an ATHIEST and need everyone to KNOW that I've read a HITCHENS book!'

True-story?

IMO, Bertrand Russel puts forward far better arguments. Or maybe even check out Thomas Paines 'Age of Reason' so yuz can pwetend to be all cultured and stuff


Yours,

- An athiest who doesn't need to shout about it at every opportunity
Never read any of those. I am a fan of Richard Dawkins though.

And for someone not shouting about it at every opportunity, you sure did jump all over this opportunity to shout about your atheism as well as trying to prove your superiority by making wild assumptions.

GG

TheRFC's Avatar


TheRFC
02.13.2012 , 04:19 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by MPagano View Post
OP, I appreciate your attempt at approaching this embattled subject. However, I don't see any points in here that address the issue which has fomented such outcry for deserter debuff.

The warzone experience has so deteriorated that, on many servers, there's no comeback scenario anymore. There's no situation where you give up the first 1 (or 2) huttball points only to knuckledown and turn the tides. For me, and many players, this type of momentum shift is a hallmark of exciting pvp.

When players are allowed to "fast forward" or "skip" to the next warzone by leaving one and joining another, you breed a demographic who see nothing wrong with quitting until they stick in a winning one. I've actually seen a play drop out of my huttball team and join on the other team shortly thereafter (this is obviously not in control by the player, but he effectively switched to the winning team).

I ask you, is this sort of pvp culture acceptable? Is this a community behavior that, if allowed to continue, will be able to provide any sort of sustainable and competitive environment? I don't think you could reasonably answer "yes".

Is this debuff the best solution? Probably not. Is it tried and true? Yes. Since WoW first incorporated this idea (and it's worth noting that it was in response to the exact same phenomenon), many games have copied the idea successfully.

This is a pretty urgent issue. Each week that passes only breeds more of this behavior as players take the "why not me" attitude without considering the bigger picture or greater good. If we agree that we want a meaningful and consistent pvp and WZ experience, I don't see how you can deny the importance of this type of mechanic.

Thoughts?

BOOM. I feel like you're a mirage!

Someone who can read what I've put, disagree but constructively criticise! I'm getting trolololled aren't I?

In all seriousness, though ...

You do raise a good point. I have ideas that will better the PvP experience in general for WZs w/o a punishment AT ALL. I didn't want to put it in the opening thread because people see a lot of writing and pass over it, also I didn't want to reply in a comment to someone because people wouldn't find it.

Overall the mantra is 'Reward to PLAY not to STAY'.

I'll be doing a thread on suggestions soon

Ty for the comment.

TheRFC's Avatar


TheRFC
02.13.2012 , 04:23 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelticfury View Post
Never read any of those. I am a fan of Richard Dawkins though.

And for someone not shouting about it at every opportunity, you sure did jump all over this opportunity to shout about your atheism as well as trying to prove your superiority by making wild assumptions.

GG

Everybody's read Richard Dawkins, the Pope has probably read his stuff by now.

Instead of a 'LOL @ the mythology - BUT, here's what I think on your points (agree/disagree)' you just have a psuedo-elitist dig and contributed nothing. Thanks for stopping by.

Kiz kiz,

x
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