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The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

MonsAlpha's Avatar


MonsAlpha
02.13.2012 , 12:07 PM | #801
To the OP:

What you fail to see is that the Sorc/Sage hybrid build requires immobility. I'm not sure how you think it's mobile at all. The ENTIRE hybrid build is set up around using telekinetic throw/force lightning constantly in order to get the proc that allows for an instant cast chain lightning/telekinetic wave.

In between the uses of FL/TT, use death field/force in balance. You can't move and cast something that is channeled last time I checked. Interrupts are your friend, use them on the force lightning and telekinetic throw.

As far as the amount of CC's, yeah there's a lot, but they are ALL fragile. In other words, if you do ANY amount of damage whatsoever to the target while he/she is CC'd, it will break and free them, except for the 2 second stun after force lift/whirlwind which isn't really that big of a deal considering the amount of CC's that people aimlessly place on someone.
Kalenaa
<The Crushers>

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.13.2012 , 12:10 PM | #802
Quote: Originally Posted by Noollig View Post
When a group of sorcs are chain rooting you in huttball, it's pretty obvious why they're OP.
I just wanted to point out that while being rooted might be extremely frustrating to a melee, as it is not effected by Resolve..

..being chain interrupted is equally frustrating for casters.

You can't move, so you can't do damage. They can't cast, so they can't do damage.

I see them as much the same thing, and neither is effected by any sort of diminishing return.

(It's times like this that I'm glad that I have ranged weapons, and very very few cast time abilities... and a root immunity. lol.)
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.13.2012 , 12:13 PM | #803
Quote: Originally Posted by MonsAlpha View Post
To the OP:

What you fail to see is that the Sorc/Sage hybrid build requires immobility. I'm not sure how you think it's mobile at all. The ENTIRE hybrid build is set up around using telekinetic throw/force lightning constantly in order to get the proc that allows for an instant cast chain lightning/telekinetic wave.

In between the uses of FL/TT, use death field/force in balance. You can't move and cast something that is channeled last time I checked. Interrupts are your friend, use them on the force lightning and telekinetic throw.

As far as the amount of CC's, yeah there's a lot, but they are ALL fragile. In other words, if you do ANY amount of damage whatsoever to the target while he/she is CC'd, it will break and free them, except for the 2 second stun after force lift/whirlwind which isn't really that big of a deal considering the amount of CC's that people aimlessly place on someone.
I've been telling him to interrupt force lightning for like 30 pages. I even spelled it out for him step by step, and tried to give him pointers.

He doesn't care about strategies, or the drawbacks of the spec, or how easy it is to shut down if necessary.

He doesn't care that the tradeoff for utility is a ton of damage, and that w/out the utility, there wouldn't be a whole lot left.

He doesn't even care if his information is correct.

He only cares about nerfing the hybrid spec.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Abadus's Avatar


Abadus
02.13.2012 , 12:14 PM | #804
Quote: Originally Posted by Nikkiree View Post
OMG Abadus
I found another pic of you owning these scrubs, lol:

http://i43.tinypic.com/21140ma.jpg

Most of these people are such bads
Ura a good
I need a cyt sig.. Be nice the op thinks you are a pvp master since you can hang with my dps.... I can't believe you dug up that picture of me.

What I would give for your burst damage. SS time tonight full dps hut ball tonight.

richardya's Avatar


richardya
02.13.2012 , 12:15 PM | #805
Sorcs are fun to hate

MonsAlpha's Avatar


MonsAlpha
02.13.2012 , 12:16 PM | #806
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
I've been telling him to interrupt force lightning for like 30 pages. I even spelled it out for him step by step, and tried to give him pointers.

He doesn't care about strategies, or the drawbacks of the spec, or how easy it is to shut down if necessary.

He doesn't care that the tradeoff for utility is a ton of damage, and that w/out the utility, there wouldn't be a whole lot left.

He doesn't even care if his information is correct.

He only cares about nerfing the hybrid spec.
What a shame lol. He must be the guy I've been killing 50 times in Voidstar.
Kalenaa
<The Crushers>

Nikkiree's Avatar


Nikkiree
02.13.2012 , 12:33 PM | #807
Quote: Originally Posted by Abadus View Post
I need a cyt sig.. Be nice the op thinks you are a pvp master since you can hang with my dps.... I can't believe you dug up that picture of me.

What I would give for your burst damage. SS time tonight full dps hut ball tonight.
CYT sigs r cool...I need to put in my BM info

OK I will be nice! Sorry OP! Ima PvP master I 4got!

Oh, I wish we would run with a good jugg....his guard + his 9k smash + my 6k smash = old warhammer style sorc bombing... without a sorc like you!
CHECK YOUR TEARS <CYT>

SWTOR-Norianx 50 Marauder V77+; Aion-Norian 55 Sorc Israphel; GW-Norian 20 Ele 35/50HOM, GWAMM; WAR-Noryan 40 Sorc RR80 Badlands(Skull Throne); WoW-Nikkiree 70 Paladin; AoC-Norian 80 Guardian PvP3 Deathwish

paladinjb's Avatar


paladinjb
02.13.2012 , 12:57 PM | #808
It is not healthy for a game to have a huge disparity in population between classes, between factions, or both. This game has both right now. Sometimes it is based on actual gameplay balance, or sometimes it is based on other things like aesthetics and story. It is up to the developers to balance the numbers, without ruining the balance of gameplay.

Sorcs are the most played class for both of those reasons. They shouldn't nerf the coolness factor of being a palpatine (or a yoda for republic version), that's just built into the game design. They need to add incentives so that more people play an underplayed class, like a sniper. The incentives should not revolve around playstyle imbalance, but it can't really happen until the classes are brought in line with each other, which brings me to my next point.

Sorcerers/Sages are not the only classes that are "a good deal above average" in pvp. Other people have brought up other classes and their specs, and maybe they need to be looked at too. That is an entirely different conversation. We are looking at sorcs/sages now, and we are looking at whether or not they have the right amount of tools in pvp. The answer is that they have too many, and some other classes have too little, and that is the bottom line. Do you want to give the other classes more tools, or do you want to take away from sorcs/sages?

On another note, I believe that some of these cries about sorcs (and mercs too) are related to the state of pvp content. Huttball is probably the most played map on most servers, and while there are lots of other classes with tricks that win game (like charge), a few of those tools are built into this one class. The other factor is that it is not a fun experience to be mowed down from range by sorcs (and mercs) sitting on ledges that you have to take a difficult route to get to, and usually are dead by that time.

Perhaps with some more maps out, the cries for ranged class nerfs will lessen, because there are some melee that need to be looked at too. We are not there yet, so we have to balance the game that we have right now.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.13.2012 , 02:10 PM | #809
Quote: Originally Posted by paladinjb View Post
It is not healthy for a game to have a huge disparity in population between classes, between factions, or both. This game has both right now. Sometimes it is based on actual gameplay balance, or sometimes it is based on other things like aesthetics and story. It is up to the developers to balance the numbers, without ruining the balance of gameplay.

Sorcs are the most played class for both of those reasons. They shouldn't nerf the coolness factor of being a palpatine (or a yoda for republic version), that's just built into the game design. They need to add incentives so that more people play an underplayed class, like a sniper. The incentives should not revolve around playstyle imbalance, but it can't really happen until the classes are brought in line with each other, which brings me to my next point.

Sorcerers/Sages are not the only classes that are "a good deal above average" in pvp. Other people have brought up other classes and their specs, and maybe they need to be looked at too. That is an entirely different conversation. We are looking at sorcs/sages now, and we are looking at whether or not they have the right amount of tools in pvp. The answer is that they have too many, and some other classes have too little, and that is the bottom line. Do you want to give the other classes more tools, or do you want to take away from sorcs/sages?

On another note, I believe that some of these cries about sorcs (and mercs too) are related to the state of pvp content. Huttball is probably the most played map on most servers, and while there are lots of other classes with tricks that win game (like charge), a few of those tools are built into this one class. The other factor is that it is not a fun experience to be mowed down from range by sorcs (and mercs) sitting on ledges that you have to take a difficult route to get to, and usually are dead by that time.

Perhaps with some more maps out, the cries for ranged class nerfs will lessen, because there are some melee that need to be looked at too. We are not there yet, so we have to balance the game that we have right now.
I appreciate your civil approach, but for many of the reasons I've stated in the thread (limitations to CC, lower burst damage than any other dps class, the lowest number of skills that can be used while moving, total dependence on 1 spell that can be interrupted easily, dependence on being stationary), I don't think that the answer is that they have too many at all. Even with the kit that you call "a good deal above average", they are still able to be completely demolished by any average player who knows what to do.

We disagree w/ your bottom line, and have provided numerous details of exactly why we feel it's balanced. On the other hand, those against the hybrid spec have examples that are full of false information, and no other real supporting evidence.

Yes, it's no fun to be killed. That's pretty much for anyone, or did you think it was extremely fun for that Sorc to get mowed down by 2 sentinels chain jumping on him?

You put forth a LOT of assumptions in this post w/out anything to back up your claims. You state very simply that Sorc/Sages are a "good deal above average". Is that ALL sorcs/sages, or just the hybrid ones this thread is about?
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

carbocat's Avatar


carbocat
02.13.2012 , 02:19 PM | #810
Sroc need nerf, no the dmg but their tools.

knockback/jolt/electro something/ immobilize/bubble/force speed/team mate pull.

Its to much for a class to have!

Just faced a team with 6 sorc and 2 marauders, how the **** are you going to win?
with knockbacks, slow, instant whirvelwind, blinded somehow if you open on them...

If not something happen to them soon, ppl will leave. There is a reason why good pvpers left already