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DOTs and preventing player from capturing point

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
DOTs and preventing player from capturing point

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
02.13.2012 , 01:33 PM | #71
I think dots should add pushback to the capping, not interrupt it.

Evil_Santa's Avatar


Evil_Santa
02.13.2012 , 01:36 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Tenthletter View Post
Sorcs can do it too in Alderaan. I do it all the time. Side speeder + Sprint + Death Field. Then DoT them all and run in circles for a while. Refresh DoTs when you get low, die, speeder back, repeat.

It's funny, I made this exact thread about two weeks ago and was flamed. Good to see not everyone is a moron. DoTs shouldn't break capture channels, or at least initial application should but not the resultant tics. I'd argue that they shouldn't break OOC regen channels either, but that's a different topic.
Except that DOTS are how players deal with stealth classes when they vanish, and they also go OOC. How is removing this affect going to do anything but make stealth classes incredibly OP? The only other way to deal with vanish is spam AOE's and pray that you get lucky. Given that objectives can be capped in-stealth now, you really want to give them the ability to just vanish mid-fight (even with dots) and cap objectives at their whim?

As previously stated, there are skills that wipe DOTS and I can't comment on other classes, but the sorc/sage's is on an extremely short cool-down. With the abundance of sorc/sages they should be aware of the situation and move to wipe DOTS from people capping - it's part of the utility of the class. If people aren't doing this on your server, then teach them.

If this is implemented, i'm rolling an Operative.

Malice_Nihilim's Avatar


Malice_Nihilim
02.13.2012 , 01:38 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by byteresistor View Post
There are no specs/classes which are ENTIRELY reliant on dots. All classes have some direct/instant damage abilities at their disposal.
beyond your basic attack, everything of 'value' on a Lethality IA is DoT's.
My Armor is Contempt, My Shield is Disgust, My Sword is Hatred
In the Emperor's Name, let None Survive!

~~~PLAGUE~~~

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.13.2012 , 01:45 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by inseeisyou View Post
I agree that with an already 8 second activation time DOTs should not prevent objective caping. Obviously the ticks should still do damage but when you consider factors like how the Alderaan speeders take players straight back to points or the defenders spawn so close to the doors on Voidstar these 15 second DOTs are imbalanced for the game type.
Remove them, then. What are the other 7 people on your team doing?

You want to nerf dots because your team is full of mouth-breathing morons?

If you're going to cap and have dots, say "Dotted, can't cap" and I bet someone will toss a dispel your way.

Most times, w/ the awful UI, you would never have any idea if anyone besides yourself was dotted.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
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RJChief's Avatar


RJChief
02.13.2012 , 01:46 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Furyofwar View Post
First of all I am pretty sure they are talking about Bleeds. An operative can spam bleed on every single person at a capture point the bleed lasts like 15seconds. An it has no CD. A bleed effect CANNOT be dispeled. So again what they are bringing up is not a L2P issue.
Quote: Originally Posted by Furyofwar View Post
You need to L2play. You cannot Dispel,Cure,Cleanse a bleed. Any DoT that does "INTERNAL DAMAGE" can not be removed by casting a cleanse/cure or anything spell for that matter.
You just failed twice in a row. All Bleeds are DoTs but not all DoTs are Bleeds. Internal Damage is typically a Force effect (I think there is a Hemorrhage ability or skill that is internal) A Bleed is typically a physical effect. Both can be cleansed. Before sounding like a drooling troll try understanding the words you are about to say.

Restoration
Instant
Force: 30
Cooldown: 4.5s
Range: 30 m
Cleanses a friendly target of up to 2 negative mental or Force effects.

Mend Wounds
Lowers the Force cost of Restoration by 15. In addition, Restoration now removes negative physical effects and heals the target for 0.

This is the ability and talent (respectively) for a Jedi Sage... It took me all of 30 seconds to find it on Torhead... and thats twice as long as your measly 15 second bleed. This really is a L2Use Teamwork issue -- Those who don't think so won't change their mind because they have never played with a "team".
Back off... And let me do my Job.
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Dark Reaper

Wintervoid's Avatar


Wintervoid
02.13.2012 , 01:55 PM | #76
I am a Scoundrel and I do use Dots to help prevent capping. I think a few things need to be cleared up though.

First, can the Dots be cleansed or not? I always thought that they could by cleanses that cleanse physical effects. On the Scoundrel board, I have read that Dirty Fighting (DoT Branch) can be made ineffective by one cleanse. IMO, if they can not be cleansed, then I do think that needs to be adjusted so that they can be cleansed. If they can be cleansed, I do not see a major issue at all.

Second, do shields prevent you from being interrupted while capping? If so, is this not a similar issue but in reverse?

Third, Dots really are not that great in PvP as I am sure everyone knows. I rarely used Vital Shot until I learned that it prevents capping. I am pretty sure that I have had people cap while dotted, so I had thought that there were good counters to the tactic in place already.

I would prefer that viable counters are implemented to add more stratagy to WZs instead of just taking away this tactic.

Anthiel's Avatar


Anthiel
02.13.2012 , 02:04 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Idockdudes View Post
Its not wanting PvP dumbed down. Dots should not keep you in combat once you kill the person who put it on you. You should not be interrupted by damage when you arent in combat. I can maybe see still being setback.

Dumbing down is different than making things work like they should. It may seem like its dumbing down, because people have developed tactics around this bad game mechanic, but its not.
who are you to say things arnt working as they should?

Bnol's Avatar


Bnol
02.13.2012 , 02:10 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Wintervoid View Post
I am a Scoundrel and I do use Dots to help prevent capping. I think a few things need to be cleared up though.

First, can the Dots be cleansed or not? I always thought that they could by cleanses that cleanse physical effects. On the Scoundrel board, I have read that Dirty Fighting (DoT Branch) can be made ineffective by one cleanse. IMO, if they can not be cleansed, then I do think that needs to be adjusted so that they can be cleansed. If they can be cleansed, I do not see a major issue at all.

Second, do shields prevent you from being interrupted while capping? If so, is this not a similar issue but in reverse?

Third, Dots really are not that great in PvP as I am sure everyone knows. I rarely used Vital Shot until I learned that it prevents capping. I am pretty sure that I have had people cap while dotted, so I had thought that there were good counters to the tactic in place already.

I would prefer that viable counters are implemented to add more stratagy to WZs instead of just taking away this tactic.
DoTs come in various categories (tech/physical/force) and different classes can cleanse different categories. The most important are tech (which ops/scoundrel dots are) and force (where sorc/sage dots are). Tech can be cleansed by Merc/Commandos and Ops/Scoundrels and force is only cleansable by Sorc/sage.

The stealth classes also have a remove all negative effects tied to their evasion abilities. So they can utilize those abilities to clear dots.

Shields do not help in capping as even absorbed damage will stop a cap.
Jack'Bauer - 50 Medic Operative - Wound in the Force
Bnol - 50 Shield Tech/AP Hybrid Powertech - Wound in the Force
Bnoll - 50 Combat Medic Commando - Wound in the Force

Bnol's Avatar


Bnol
02.13.2012 , 02:16 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Evil_Santa View Post
Except that DOTS are how players deal with stealth classes when they vanish, and they also go OOC. How is removing this affect going to do anything but make stealth classes incredibly OP? The only other way to deal with vanish is spam AOE's and pray that you get lucky. Given that objectives can be capped in-stealth now, you really want to give them the ability to just vanish mid-fight (even with dots) and cap objectives at their whim?

As previously stated, there are skills that wipe DOTS and I can't comment on other classes, but the sorc/sage's is on an extremely short cool-down. With the abundance of sorc/sages they should be aware of the situation and move to wipe DOTS from people capping - it's part of the utility of the class. If people aren't doing this on your server, then teach them.

If this is implemented, i'm rolling an Operative.
He is talking about the channel of the OOC regen ability, which would take the stealth class out of stealth. Further, stealth classes can clear all negative effects by using their evasion ability, which is on a shorter CD than their vanish. Your DoTs are not much of a counter to those stealth classes as they can easily vanish mid fight by using their evasion ability and vanish.

DoTs come in different types, and each class can only dispel so many types.
Jack'Bauer - 50 Medic Operative - Wound in the Force
Bnol - 50 Shield Tech/AP Hybrid Powertech - Wound in the Force
Bnoll - 50 Combat Medic Commando - Wound in the Force

Trauglodyte's Avatar


Trauglodyte
02.13.2012 , 03:03 PM | #80
More of a UI problem than anything. Fix that and then 50% of the problem is gone. Of course, you'll have to deal with the other 50% - the morons with the ability to cleanse said DoTs but are too stupid to do it.
To die is simply to end the cycle of pain!