The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

It seems BioNerf hates melee. The intended buff for Ani Marauders resulted in a nerf. They nerf'd the crap outta Op/Scoundrels. They nerf'd hybrid specs of Assassins/Shadows.

Next in line would be PowerTechs/Vangaurds with their awesome Pyro burst (with or without the hybred spec Carolina Parakeet).

Why Sorcerers aren't getting touched, ever ? Maybe Gabe Thingieleadpvpdesigner is playing one ? Who knows.

I'm rerolling a Sage at the moment so I can piss people off with my uber utility and tools (and throwing peebles is awesomely irritating )

Dude, they're one step ahead of you and already nerfed hybrid builds for Sor- ...o wait.

I play both classes. Shadows have enough capacity to shut down a sage thank you, or PVP in several situations, without removing force speed, which on 1x1 combat, is on a reasonable CD.

i kinda agree... as a sorc with 3-4 champ pieces and some blue slotted mod gear, i was blowing up full bm players everywhere i went.

if the 31 point talents were worth even a half a ****, there wouldn't be so many hybrids running around.

That's one thing I'm also advocating for. I want them to move damage from other abilities to the 31-point talents to make it more attractive to spec fully into a tree. It's disappointing when a 31-point talent is worthless. A 31-point talent should be something you see as your heavy hitter or a move that brings the whole spec together. Currently the Sorcerer DPS 31-point talents seem more like another button to press. Nothing special about them.


Thundering Blast should be an ability that is used for big burst damage(3-4k damage seems about right and currently it's far lower). I propose that some of Chain Lightning's damage be moved to Thundering Blast. Currently Thundering Blast seems like a powerful ability that feels like a big nuke, that's what Thundering Blast needs to be. This would help both PvE and PvP Lightning Sorcerers with their burst capability, which is underwhelming in their so called low mobility and high burst spec.


Creeping Terror is underwhelming and seems to have had it's damage reduced to compensate for the fact that it provides an immobilize. I propose that damage from some other abilities be moved to Creeping Terror while changing the immobilize into a 50% slow instead. This would make it more of a heavy hitter that you use whenever possible instead of a CC you hold on to for utility purposes in PvP. This change would also benefit PvE Sorcerers by making their 31-point talent actually do significant damage.

What a crock. I leveled as lightning in beta when the mobs hit twice as hard as they do now and people were having trouble even leveling their class lol.

Lightning never runs out of mana. I could solo 2 man quests when they were HARD using my melee auto attack, dot and healing my tank companion on procs (when the heal cost no mana).

For non 2 mans? Shield on companion. dot and lightning nuke spam levels as fast as balance with no downtime because of silly mana efficiency.

I didn't even need my damn companion to level when I got deep into the lightning tree. Chain lightning, force storm (couple ticks), proc insta chain lightning. Aoe pull? DEAD. If there is a silver mob left standing hit it with a couple of nukes or knockback/stun and then pve special (can't be used in pvp).

Want to balance this faceroll class? How to remove hybrid spec and not nerf dps viability whatsoever?

Move madness talent (no cooldown lighting spam) to 31 point madness talent. Class balance and fixed. It would STILL be the best ranged class in this game BY FAR in pvp. Would also prevent people mass rerolling them (cus they are going to have to nerf them to the ground if 8/10 people in warzones are one class, and it is heading that way) because it would be a late bloomer in pvp (like other classes).

No class is hard to level in this game and to even suggest that lightning is as hard as a guardian or scoundrel which BLOW at low levels is a joke. You could level a sorc/sage as 0/0/0, with a tank companion simply because of the shield and heals/dots lol.

This game was never designed around the BS hybrid spec dps sorc. Want proof? They just nerfed a hybrid spec shadow/assassin who was NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE to as OP as the sorc/sage hybrid.

Among top best dps in warzone? Check.
By FAR the best offhealing dps (a shield is an INSTANT HEAL you can give to other people since there is no dispel in this game)? Check. Add to that STUPID GOOD force efficiency.
Easy class to play? Second easiest in game. Check.
Takes longer to kill (as hybrid) then a tank when soloed? Check. I can down full tank specs faster then it takes me to kill a sorc/sage that is hybrid.
Best CC? Check.

So you have a class that can easily dps with any spec in the game, has the best survival in the game, best CC in the game and is the second easiest class to play in the game, and is the only dps hybrid that is worth a damn as a offhealer?

L O L.

The only way the hybrid spec is squishy is if you are a mouth breather, who never heals, yourself, shields yourself, use CC (some of it AUTOMATIC when your shield breaks), never cleanses, and never force sprints.

Want to know what squishy looks like? Play a dps specced guardian/jug (I don't play this class). I can kill them in seconds. Armor means jack in this game for the most part.

Also to the people saying your 31 point talents "suck"? You people act like everyones 31 point talent is killer. You already have bubble/more cc then everyone else baseline. All the CC becomes freaking instant cast in balance/madness and you pick up another root? BOO FREAKIN HOO. My idea makes your 31 point talent a "killer talent". Happy?

Most stupidly OP spec as hybrid I have ever played in a game in beta. If you don't know it? You either a) suck. b) haven't played other classes in this game besides a merc/commando. You must think all classes are this faceroll...

Just thought I'd add this little pic. This is going to be every warzone if something isn't done.


http://i.imgur.com/QKmA2.jpg

This is when they say your class is OP cus you outdamaged them LOL. Even though anyone that can outdamage a sorc/sage with a marauder/sent? Could OBLITERATE the dmg meters on a sage/sorc while rarely if ever dying.

I have played sentinel/marauder and sorc/sage. The two aren't even comparable in difficulty level. It is like you are playing a completely different game.

I don't mind it, I love the challenge. The problem? They hybrid spec allows BAD players to do almost equal dmg and usually die less. It needs to go.

Hybrids should actually like...have to use all their abilities to come near top dps. I have seen supposedly "good" sorc/sages reroll a marauder/sent and struggle to do 100 k dmg (LOL).

The only other class these baddies can do well on is merc/commando, and that class doesn't have an interrupt, has no passive dmg on LOS, and can be completely shut down offensively. Oh yeah...they also cant bubble other people and their soft CC has a cast time. Add to that as hybrid spec their bubble doesn't play for them and CC multiple people when it breaks. It merc/commando too simple to play? Yeah. Is it anywhere near as OP as the hybrid sorc/sage spec? HELL NO.

Hey there all, just wanted comment on here real quick to address a very important issue that has to deal with the original poster's findings. You see it's not just this mmo but ALL recent mmos in the last couple of years have taken to the disturbing trend of gimping melee severely while completely overpowering casters. Now I have a few theories as to why this is, but that's for a different topic
For now though I would like you to take note of the mechanics that are currently stacked against melee classes.

1.Boss Aoes:

SWTOR seems to have taken a page right out of other MMOs and decided that it would be a great idea to give bosses and mobs a TON of aoe dmg that destroys melee. The biggest problem with this is that a melee toon has to stop any and all attacks in order to vacate the aoe and not die. There is no such mechanic that stops ranged classes to that effect. No matter what, unless there is some giant map wide stun (which does not exist) they can keep on dpsing/healing with little to no incident, while melee is busy running around doing nothing except lose health rapidly. I would be the equivalent of a Boss firing off an aoe that only affected casters, doing 1k points of dmg every time they tried to attack/cast and silenced them as well. I have yet to see such a spell exist. Frankly I hope I never do because it would be complete overkill. So why then must melee suffer similar effects on an almost daily basis?

2.Little to no self healing:

Another disturbing trend is the belief that giving melee classes (especially tanks) a way to recover health during a fight would lead to complete unbalance. So in response most developers have given said classes extremely weak/situational healing abilities or nothing at all. Now there would be no problem with this line of thinking if melee classes had such phenomenal defenses or dps that enemies dies quickly enough so no real heals are required save for being outnumbered or chaining more too many mobs. But sadly such balance does not exist. Often times the most high damaging attacks COMPLETELY ignore melee's armor and shreds the poor defender to pieces. In essence it turns melee classes into an armorless attacker with no sustainable/reliable way to mitigate damage.

3.Very small mitigation chances/ "Heavy Armor, High AC"

Now just like healing, since melee classes are perceived to be just too tough with their higher armor (that in reality doesn't stop the most common types of high dmg) developers have given melee character a very small percentage/proc based mitigation mechanic. This would be a great idea if the dmg that came through was mitigated properly. But sadly, such is not the case. Even the damage that makes it through the procs, often times are high enough to put serious dents in a would be melee character's health. So what you are left with is a character with "Heavy armor / AC" that doesn't stop most incoming dmg, with poor proc based mitigation that barely chisels down any of the unmolested incoming DPS.

4. Long cool downs:

Basically refer to points 2-4. For the same reasons developers have made CDs for melee classes entirely too long. CD's that should be on a one minute timer are on three. I'm looking at you Saber Ward

5.CC, CC,CC / Physical location (proximity of attack):

In a game filled with heavy ranged DPS, it is hard enough just REACHING your objective as melee and applying constant dmg, so the thing I find most infuriating is the constant slows and stuns. They are completely unnecessary and I would go as far to say that melee classes should be all but immune to them, except for the odd stun or two. The reason being is that stun locking/perma slowing melee is DOUBLE PUNISHMENT. Unlike ranged characters, melee has to actually get to its target and CONTINUE to stay on their target within a very short distance in order to do any kind of dmg. So they already start off with a major disadvantage. Making it so atrociously easy to just get out of a melee characters range or stop them cold while continuing to DPS them with high dmg. This inexcusable and bad game design, has been copied from mmo to mmo. Gap closers loose all their worth, when someone can just stun/kite you right after you use it, especially in a pvp environment.

Now take a look at everything I listed above. Ranged classes face no such obstacles. In most cases ranged classes have enough healing, dmg, cc, and mitigation to exotic dmg that their realistic armor class is MUCH higher than that of melee classes. Their perceived weakness of "light armor / light AC" is easily overcome with a few talents and base powers, creating dominating force with very few weaknesses and little risk vs. gain. The Hybrid Sorc Spec that the OP speaks of is the epitome of this idea. Hence why he is asking for a change to be made. I'd like to thank you all very much for taking the time to read this post, and wish you wonderful day.

-Drega

Too bad there wont be a nerf to sorc/sages EVER, since 60-70% of the population in SWTOR is playing either sage or sorc. Nerfing them might cause ppl to quit the game = losing alot of money, therefore nerfing will not be an option for bioware.

As soon as you mention Sorcerer/sage and OP in the same sentance ppl that play them will try to make you look like a fool or murder you with posts, so be careful.