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Why Ranged Classes Dominate This Game and Why It needs a fix

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why Ranged Classes Dominate This Game and Why It needs a fix

Zlashie's Avatar


Zlashie
02.11.2012 , 11:14 AM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Xenon-se View Post
You forgot:
Bad Player vs Bad Player = Range is auto-win.
Good Player vs Good Player = Range is no longer auto-win.
This isnt about skills. This is about the system itself.

To give you an analogy as an example: Im telling you that my i5 processor isnt as good as your i7 processor and you are teling me that I need to be better at using my PC in order for it to be equal to yours.

Yes, a great player can overcome such differences and make it work. I have seen good players take the worst class and make it work. But it doesnt neglect the fact that the balance issues are still there.

iceperson's Avatar


iceperson
02.11.2012 , 11:16 AM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by Zlashie View Post
I am curious to how many here actually spent the time to read the entire post.
no need to because everything we need to know we can learn from the title. you're bad, your opinion matters not. so sorry.

shaidarlol's Avatar


shaidarlol
02.11.2012 , 11:16 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by baskynn View Post
sorry dude, but knockbacks don't give resolve, and it's annoying as a melee just getting thrown around like a ragdoll and not being able to do anything about it.
and this is why the pvp forums are so ignorant. go find a class on your server that has a knockback, duel them and find out how wrong you are.

Mausini's Avatar


Mausini
02.11.2012 , 11:19 AM | #124
I feel that the main problem is more a general design failure regarding classes.

Ranged DD's need to be more squishy than melee = less HP and inferior defense abilities than melee classes but better CC.

Tanks = Less damage but strong CC and group utility

Heal = Good heal but almost no damage output and medicore CC.


Thats best practice but poorly implemented in swtor.

Diplomats can do great healing while doing ok damage with extremely good CC.

Most Tank Classes are not hard enough in pvp with medicore group support abilitys

Most Melee DD's do not have better defense abilities than ranged classes and the spike damage of most melee classes is very comparable to ranged DD's.

Zlashie's Avatar


Zlashie
02.11.2012 , 11:20 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by shaidarlol View Post
last time i checked, knockbacks give resolve

the OP forgets to mention that while yes a ranged class can indeed attack in melee, their attacks are greatly diminished by either push backs by the attacks of melee or they will simply be interrupted. there is a reason why cc's exist, so a well-played/skilled ranged is able to keep the melee away and dps, while a well-played/skilled melee is able to keep the ranged class in melee.

the OP assumes that damage comes at the same rate, which is a fallacy to begin with. given his example of "damage frames," this assumes that the melee will do the same damage per "damage frame" as the ranged class, which isn't true. melee usually deal a higher amount of damage per "damage frame" than a ranged class could. in his example, it is probably true that the ranged got 4 "damage frames" while the melee got only 3, however, in those 3 "damage frames" the melee should have dealt at least the equal amount of damage to the ranged if not more.
Il hand you a cookie by person when I can outdamage a gunslinger/sniper with fewer hits than them.

Teabaker's Avatar


Teabaker
02.11.2012 , 11:21 AM | #126
I think stuff like the Sorc stun shouldn't be in the Game. A long stun without any requirements? That's just broken. They should make the Stun Assassin only or it should require setup (Like, consumes Crushing Darkness) or something.

Jinroku's Avatar


Jinroku
02.11.2012 , 11:22 AM | #127
I think a big issue is POOR map design. There are different levels in all maps, where range has an advantage.

Huttball- has 3 levels, if any of your abilitys; ie force charge is down, what are you gonna do? Run? Hope to LoS?

Alderran- has a higher level such as the balcony in the center. Even at east and west, as I say if any of your abilitys are on CD that help you break that gap, what are you gonna do? Run around to the stairs as they turret you down.

Voidstar- Boxes, and the LoS around pillars so they can turret you at the door.


Poor map design, LOVES range. Plain and simple. TURRET TURRET TURRET.

I think are ability's are fine, maybe perhaps let us have more survivability ability's closer to lower level, instead of high 30+ if in the 10-49 brackets.

I just really strongly believe that range is favored in this game due to map design. But that's my personal opinion.

Before people bash, oh your bad, or oh this and this. I play both 50 sorc/50 jug, I know the differences.

shaidarlol's Avatar


shaidarlol
02.11.2012 , 11:23 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by Zlashie View Post
This isnt about skills. This is about the system itself.

To give you an analogy as an example: Im telling you that my i5 processor isnt as good as your i7 processor and you are teling me that I need to be better at using my PC in order for it to be equal to yours.

Yes, a great player can overcome such differences and make it work. I have seen good players take the worst class and make it work. But it doesnt neglect the fact that the balance issues are still there.
the problem with your analogy is that it's begging the question.
you already assumed that the melee is the worse class (i5) while the ranged is the better (i7)

what the other poster is suggesting is he thinks that they are balanced, therefore skill is what makes one class better than the other.

a better analogy would be you both have i5 processors, but the ranged user overclocked his while the melee didn't. in other words skill.

Zlashie's Avatar


Zlashie
02.11.2012 , 11:23 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by iceperson View Post
no need to because everything we need to know we can learn from the title. you're bad, your opinion matters not. so sorry.
Thats funny because the title says nothing about what my thread is about.

Actually, if you spent 5-10min reading it you would know that my thread does not ask for any class nerfs, it discusses why some classes come across stronger than others, and you would also know that my suggestion to fix the problem doesnt ask for a class nerf at all: it asks for a refix of the stunlimits (resolve (bar))

Zlashie's Avatar


Zlashie
02.11.2012 , 11:25 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by shaidarlol View Post
the problem with your analogy is that it's begging the question.
you already assumed that the melee is the worse class (i5) while the ranged is the better (i7)

what the other poster is suggesting is he thinks that they are balanced, therefore skill is what makes one class better than the other.

a better analogy would be you both have i5 processors, but the ranged user overclocked his while the melee didn't. in other words skill.
Im not asuming melee is worse. Im asuming melee has much bigger problems regarding CC due to the fact that resolve does not affect root/slow.

a rooted/slowed melee has the same crucial effect as stun has to ranged.

As mentioned before im not asking about class nerfs/buffs, im asking about the resolve system to be reworked.