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The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

shaidarlol's Avatar


shaidarlol
02.10.2012 , 06:08 PM | #341
Quote: Originally Posted by sithgrizley View Post
Really?

Two blatant glaring issues that you have in this post.

The best equipped to deal with a Sorc is a Marauder hands down. 9 Second interrupts combined with Force Leap. Plus the ability to snare you as long as they have a dot on you, that's as bad as it gets for a Sorc.

You think one class has less CC/defense than a Sorc hmm?

4 second stun, all classes have this.
Instant Whirlwind, bonus 2 second stun after it's broken.
Knockback, bonus 5 second root puts this over the top even vs other classes with a knockback, plus a cooldown reduction talent.
Shield explosion

That's 5 hard CCs.
4 second stun = 1 cc
whirlwind + 2s stun if it breaks early = 1 cc, it doesn't count as 2
knockback + root = 1 cc it doesn't count as 2
i don't even know what cooldown reduction talent you are even talking about.
shield explosion = 1 cc (which btw can't be controlled by the sorcerer)

that is 4 cc's.....

Quote: Originally Posted by sithgrizley View Post
Shield -Absorbs roughly 175 hp a second. If you're constantly taking damage.
Force Speed - For most classes this is just a trololo I'm gonna walk away from melee and theres nothing you can do. At best it's "K, now you gotta blow your force speed and good lucking hitting me for the next 2 seconds"
Lightning applies 50% snare
9 second cooldown snare
10 range interrupt
the force snare is 12 seconds cd with a 6 duration, yes lightning applies a slow, but guess what the sorcerer is standing there casting, he isn't moving....
and for most classes? you mean 1? as in operatives? even then they can just auto attack?

Quote: Originally Posted by sithgrizley View Post
That is a completely retarded amount of CC/defensive utility for one class.
so 4 cc's which basically every class has save a couple, and force speed? makes the class op?

Quote: Originally Posted by sithgrizley View Post
Lets look at the Arsenal Merc since that's the other strong ranged class.

4 Second stun - Everyone gets
30 second knockback - can be talented to knock back a little further
Knockback talent for rocket punch - much shorter than Overload, but gets them out of melee.
Talent for snare ability during unload - Not nearly as much of a mercs dps time is using unload a sorc is using lightning. They have to rely on procs to do it more than once per 12(?15) seconds.
[/QUOTE]

you are forgetting they also have a whirlwind, it's called concussion missile

let's look at all the tools a assassin has vs a sorcerer,

your own force speed, you move 15% faster, 6s cd on force slow which has a 12s duration, cloak, knockback, vanish, interrupt, low slash, starting the fight from stealth, stun, 90s trinket (which only merc and assassin's can get)...i wont even begin to add what other stuff you can do if you spec a certain way.

what do marauders have that is more advantageous than an assassin when fighting a sorcerer? i can only think of 1, if the fight is on the cat walk and assassins get knocked off...

RobyBaggio's Avatar


RobyBaggio
02.10.2012 , 06:10 PM | #342
Quote: Originally Posted by jtfone View Post
Sorry your a joke. Did you even watch the video I posted. 4k + short bursts at times from the Sorc in addition to his super abilities. I love how you make it sound like it is so easy to go through bubbles lol.

Yes the class is op and the baddie Sorc's like you are terrified there super class will be adjusted.

Watch at 8:00 to 9. No Sorc's have no burst right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnUXY...ature=youtu.be
Sorry but that is a bad video. I don't even need to watch more than 2 mins. The first 2 mins tell the story. '

They open the door with 1 minute, 1 minute, that's how bad the opposition were. Then they guys should of died 3 times, 3 times!

You came here and boast how much damage you have done but they do deliver the killing blow.

I don't always top the damage when I play Marauder but I tend to top the kill count, I wonder why.

The guy even says in the video "i should of died". Poor post.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
02.10.2012 , 06:12 PM | #343
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
I like how people harp on how much CC ability a Sorc has, but still no one will understand that these CCs exist because a Sorc has TWO DAMAGE ABILITIES that can be used while moving. Both of them suck.

Interrupt Force Lightning, no damage. Focus a Sorc, no damage.

You want this class nerfed based totally on its ability to annoy people, or to run away and not do any real harm to anyone while running?
You're a ranged caster. The downside to being a ranged caster is supposed to be a need to cast. You're basically wanting a class that can spam instant cast abilities at range while being unkillable due to incredible CCs.

"Interrupt Force Lightning, no damage. Focus a Sorc, no damage."

1. Cast something else. The 4s lockout only applies to your Force Lightning, which is supposed to be a filler move. If you're doing nothing but Force Lightning you're terrible.

2. Focus a ______, dead. - Insert any other class. A hybrid CC Sorcerer can use cooldowns to escape even when focused. Sure he doesn't do much damage while using his GCDs to escape but any other class in the same situation would just fall over and die.

P.S. - I hesitate to call them "cooldowns" because bubble and knockback are on 20 second cooldowns. That's actually shorter than my shared spec's Force Crush, which is a common part of the normal DPS rotation.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

shaidarlol's Avatar


shaidarlol
02.10.2012 , 06:13 PM | #344
Quote: Originally Posted by sithgrizley View Post
Do me a favor and check how many damage abilities a Merc can use on the run.

Since I know you won't, I'll give you a hand.

They can use Heatseeker missiles, which require Tracer Missile to do any real damage.

They can use Railshot. Which needs at least 1 Tracer Missile hit to even be usable and does very low base damage increased by 6% per Tracer Missile.

That's two abilities that can be used on the run... ASSUMING they have already had a chance to stand still and Tracer Missile you.
they can use railshot at any point as long as the person has a dot on them, they also have instant grenade, they also have missile blast, oh yea last time i checked they can still auto attack on the run, which btw may be a joke to you, but it really isn't when you're a sorcerer. yea clearly they only have 2 things they can do while on the run.

and again i love that you can point out about other classes but speak nothing about the class which you play.

HBninjaX's Avatar


HBninjaX
02.10.2012 , 06:16 PM | #345
best warzone team: all sorcs/consulars

shaidarlol's Avatar


shaidarlol
02.10.2012 , 06:19 PM | #346
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
A lot of people seem to be in denial about Sorcerers. I literally listed out the CCs a Sorcerer has and still people claim that "Sorcerers don't have more CC than anyone else". I can't decide if I should laugh or if I should feel pity that reading comprehension is something lost to such a large portion of the community.

There are some still posting about Sorcerers being "easy to counter". FYI with the amount of control they have they're actually the most difficult class in the game to counter. The interrupts and slows so many are crying about barely have an effect. Unlike WoW an interrupt locks you out of a SINGLE spell for 4 seconds. It causes a caster to waste 1-2 seconds at best. Slows also effect every class negatively. A melee that is slowed literally cannot get in range to do damage. A Sorcerer that is slowed is forced to use one of his/her many short cooldown CC/defensive skills to avoid taking damage. A slow doesn't effect their ability to do damage in a serious way. The fact that their "counters" merely annoy them or slow down their progress to a small degree is why they are so imbalanced in the hybrid CC heavy spec. Nothing can stop a Sorcerer specced this way except the combined efforts of multiple players. That's not balance.

A few say that the spec I posted is trash and sacrifices too much damage. Please enlighten me. Other than 30% critical damage bonus on a few abilities what does this build sacrifice? What does a Sorcerer using this spec give up to gain such incredible control, AoE damage, and utility? From my perspective it's not much. To those saying that only an idiot would use this sort of utility/CC spec I ask just one question: Why do you care if it's changed if you think it's worthless?
i'll list the cc's again

1 stun
1 whirlwind (it will stun for 2s if it ends early) this means this is really only 1 cc not 2
1 knockback w/ root, this also means it's 1 cc not 2...
1 3 second blind when a bubble breaks.

that is 4.......

RayneDancer's Avatar


RayneDancer
02.10.2012 , 06:20 PM | #347
Stupid ideas for balancing. Sorry.
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Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.10.2012 , 06:24 PM | #348
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
You're a ranged caster. The downside to being a ranged caster is supposed to be a need to cast. You're basically wanting a class that can spam instant cast abilities at range while being unkillable due to incredible CCs.

"Interrupt Force Lightning, no damage. Focus a Sorc, no damage."

1. Cast something else. The 4s lockout only applies to your Force Lightning, which is supposed to be a filler move. If you're doing nothing but Force Lightning you're terrible.

2. Focus a ______, dead. - Insert any other class. A hybrid CC Sorcerer can use cooldowns to escape even when focused. Sure he doesn't do much damage while using his GCDs to escape but any other class in the same situation would just fall over and die.
To start, I'm a Powertech. I don't have problems w/ Sorcs. 6 second interrupt, grapple, auto-snare on my main damage move that can't be interrupted, and lots of damage + better/more DoTs than Sorcs have shuts Sorcs down w/out a lot of trouble. Some good healers can LoS and get away sometimes, but that's because they are.. good.

So.

1) Force Lightning is NOT a filler move for the hybrid spec this thread is specifically referring to (the one w/ all the CC everyone is complaining about). It's the main spell that everything is tied to, and if you shut it down, you just shut down all of the nasty things that can follow. Next, if you are freecasting something w/ someone who just interrupted you pushing back your cast and smacking your face in, well, you're the one who is terrible. Smart players will run and kite at this point, because that's the only way to survive and deal more damage as a Sorc.

You obviously understand that a caster needs space to cast, so I guess I'm not following why you can't understand that the CC exists to actually give a Sorc that space. The other casts you are mentioning will suffer from pushback, have very long cast times w/ the exception of Lightning Strike, which is awful.

If you interrupt a Sorc and he starts casting Crushing Darkness or pretty much anything other than running to get room on you, you should do a happy dance, because you just found a terrible sorc and an easy kill.

2) Pretty much exactly what I said. You want them nerfed because they can run away from you while not doing you any real harm. If you really want to kill them, keep pursuing them, it'll take a while, but it's almost inevitable that they will die w/out help of some kind.

Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
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shaidarlol's Avatar


shaidarlol
02.10.2012 , 06:27 PM | #349
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
You're a ranged caster. The downside to being a ranged caster is supposed to be a need to cast. You're basically wanting a class that can spam instant cast abilities at range while being unkillable due to incredible CCs.

"Interrupt Force Lightning, no damage. Focus a Sorc, no damage."

1. Cast something else. The 4s lockout only applies to your Force Lightning, which is supposed to be a filler move. If you're doing nothing but Force Lightning you're terrible.
yes let's cast something else like lightning strike which does about as much damage as shock, or better yet, let's cast chain lightning which has a 2.6s cast time, or crushing darkness which also has a 2.6s cast time.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
2. Focus a ______, dead. - Insert any other class. A hybrid CC Sorcerer can use cooldowns to escape even when focused. Sure he doesn't do much damage while using his GCDs to escape but any other class in the same situation would just fall over and die.
apparently you haven't met a merc healer or a merc dps where they just pop their 25% dmg mitigation shield and tank you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
P.S. - I hesitate to call them "cooldowns" because bubble and knockback are on 20 second cooldowns. That's actually shorter than my shared spec's Force Crush, which is a common part of the normal DPS rotation.
would you call force charge a cooldown?

i'm curious as to how long does an average fight between you and a sorcerer last? i'm pretty sure it's never longer than 20s in any warzones. 3 things usually happen, a) 1 of you will die, b)your teammate comes along and helps you, c) sorcerers teammate comes and helps them

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
02.10.2012 , 06:35 PM | #350
When people refer to "cooldowns" they mean the defensive cooldowns that are commonly found in MMOs with 1m+ cooldowns.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com