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Why Ranged Classes Dominate This Game and Why It needs a fix

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why Ranged Classes Dominate This Game and Why It needs a fix

sithgrizley's Avatar


sithgrizley
02.10.2012 , 04:37 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by spencerfcp View Post
Nope, ranged classes have an advantage at a range. Melee classes have an advantage at close distance.

Imagine that. I'm sure ranged classes get pissed when their knock back is on cool down and they are completely helpless to any competent melee.

And I play all melee characters.
The problem is this isn't really the case. Ranged is not at a significant disadvantage at melee range.

At best it allows the melee to use interrupts if it has them. Short of that they deal similar amounts of damage and have similar defenses. The problem is that the ranged attacker starts their damage long before the melee does.

As a Merc if anything is in melee with you and your knockback is down you just sit there and TM TM Unload TM TM HS RS. If they interrupt TM you use PS instead. If they interrupt Unload you shrug and start the next TM cast. HS and RS are instant so they can't do anything about those. Assuming you got a couple tracer missles off as they come in they will usually run out of hp before you do. Things are even worse if you're talking about a Sorc, getting and staying in melee against a Sorc means he is either a derp or forgot where his knockbacks, stuns, shield buttons are.

XiPsiDawg's Avatar


XiPsiDawg
02.10.2012 , 04:37 PM | #42
In MOST MMO's ranged dps usually have to do some form of kiting melee, EXCEPT this game. This is what seperates the good players from the bad. Now give a ranged dps more slows/stuns than melee gap closers/counters and ranged comes out on top. Even the BAD players. I said this in another post but I'll say it again since there seems to be a lot of idiots on this game. If you LACK the necessary tools you won't be able to do the job the right way, regardless of skill. You either have all the necessary tools or you don't.

Lazorous's Avatar


Lazorous
02.10.2012 , 04:40 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Zlashie View Post
Yup I did. Its in the section of when ranged classes can attack compared to melee

in terms of wow: I only made one comparison. CC. And I mentioned that wow had the issue were you could be chain CCed to the ground without any kind of diminishing returns (do keep in mind I ahve no played it recently so I am NOT updated on changes, im talking oldschool wow).

Bioware fixed this problem by adding a Limit bar to Stuns. The problem I pressent in the thread is melee's compared to knockbacks/roots/slows in comparison to ranged classes.

As I mentioned, my personal opinion is that its much more relaxing playing ranged, it doesnt mean its favoured, but the thread itself was made because many of my mates/guildmembers/people on this forum/people in general chat have been complaining about melee having a much harder time in pvp.

-Z
I concur on Vanilla wow's chained CC's. Those were quite horrid back in the day. It's a bit more relaxed now as more escape/defensive/offensive options are available and diminishing returns have been adjusted for different types of CC categories.

I agree playing ranged is much more relaxed, as I've tried both. The advantage is staying in the back and usually not being noticed right away, whereas Melee are in your face and easier to target from afar.

But personally, I'm not yet sold on some of the fix suggestions. That could be that my experience as ranged Vanguard, I haven't had a lot of options to get melee off me, and as an Assassin, I haven't had much issues keeping up with a ranged target. So it could be me.

Everol's Avatar


Everol
02.10.2012 , 04:45 PM | #44
What ranged class(es) are you referring to that "dominate" the game?

Playing as a Gunslinger I am usually the only one of my class in a warzone. The most I have seen is one other in the same warzone as me. Also I find that often certain classes have an ability to ignore knockbacks and snares, jugs in particular I have noticed this with.

Maybe it is just that way for our server?

Lazorous's Avatar


Lazorous
02.10.2012 , 04:46 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaFurz View Post
Yeah thats why Iam patience with this class and can only hope that you can kill aswell in 5-6 seconds at higher lvls like ranged classed do it with my class currently, wheras I need myself the double of time around. Just imagine, heavy defence+shield+heals+knockback 1+ knockback 2 + high dps in general up to 2.5-3k crits.
I'm guessing you're talking about Commandos/Mercs...

Their heavy armor really isn't that big of a deal. It's the Reactive Shield that makes the huge difference. But once that's on CD, you can still cut through them, providing they don't have any other heals or defensive abilities already ticking or activated.

And if they are spec'd for DPS, their heals are pretty pathetic. You can interrupt through them and keep the pressure on to finish them. Of course, if you're lower lvl than your targets, then you obviously lack more of the available abilities to counter them.

And if they're heal spec, they're not going to kill you in 5-6 seconds. It's one or the other... there are no commandos that are 31/31/31

And if you're worried about two knockbacks, you need to save your leap (assuming you're playing a class with leap) for when the aoe Knockback happens, since that is the one that snare you. If they spec for the stockstrike knockback (they have to talent for this), that is the 2nd knockback but does not snare you. So if you have a snare on them while they knock you with their rifle, you can easily get back into position.

If the issue is them knocking you off Huttball ramps, then you need to better position yourself when you fight against them.

BobaFurz's Avatar


BobaFurz
02.10.2012 , 04:49 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by XiPsiDawg View Post
In MOST MMO's ranged dps usually have to do some form of kiting melee, EXCEPT this game. This is what seperates the good players from the bad. Now give a ranged dps more slows/stuns than melee gap closers/counters and ranged comes out on top. Even the BAD players. I said this in another post but I'll say it again since there seems to be a lot of idiots on this game. If you LACK the necessary tools you won't be able to do the job the right way, regardless of skill. You either have all the necessary tools or you don't.
I just did write about this a page before.

Just take the marauder as an example, I can talk only about the lvls I play so far ..so lvl 30-40.
This class has to interrupt BH/Trooper in close combat, interrupt their dmg output to succeed in a fight.

Isnt something wrong since they do the same dmg also at 30m range. Like you say in all other mmos I played in the last ten years, most ranged classes I played or which I had to fight ...actually had to kite a warrior class.

What are doing ranged classes in this game, they either stand still and try to outdps you..which they actually can if you are not carefully or they run around which is even more harder since due to the animations of the melee classes you cant get a hit on them. It takes more time to kill and when it takes more time to kill the next opponent is getting in your death zone aka 30m and starts firing at you.....almost all classes in swtor have 30m dmg skills, except warrior classes.

Higher lvl mauraders will probably correct me, but these are my expiriences at my lvl range currently with certain classes and in group pvp.
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Vonrictus's Avatar


Vonrictus
02.10.2012 , 05:02 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaFurz View Post
I just did write about this a page before.

Just take the marauder as an example, I can talk only about the lvls I play so far ..so lvl 30-40.
This class has to interrupt BH/Trooper in close combat, interrupt their dmg output to succeed in a fight.

Isnt something wrong since they do the same dmg also at 30m range. Like you say in all other mmos I played in the last ten years, most ranged classes I played or which I had to fight ...actually had to kite a warrior class.

What are doing ranged classes in this game, they either stand still and try to outdps you..which they actually can if you are not carefully or they run around which is even more harder since due to the animations of the melee classes you cant get a hit on them. It takes more time to kill and when it takes more time to kill the next opponent is getting in your death zone aka 30m and starts firing at you.....almost all classes in swtor have 30m dmg skills, except warrior classes.

Higher lvl mauraders will probably correct me, but these are my expiriences at my lvl range currently with certain classes and in group pvp.
That pretty much sums it up. As a 35 marauder I get in hope to get a kill, get my dots off, start getting blasted from a tier above me by a merc/sorc/commando and blow my 4 second vanish licking my wounds and hoping I noticed all the damage I was taking before it was too late.

Rinse...repeat

I like the marauder a lot, but man 2-3 ranged play hell on all melee simply because tab targeting is the only viable targeting in the game right now.

Kharim's Avatar


Kharim
02.10.2012 , 05:09 PM | #48
As a commando, my knockback adds to the resolve bar and does nothing against a full resolve bar. I also have a 4 second stun, a short duration slow if i spam my free attack, and long mez. I fail to see where I have any edge in CC.

As a shadow I can force stun, keep you slowed the entire fight, knockback, long mez from stealth, force lift, stealth, in-combat stealth, knockdown or force pull, and force speed. I also have 10m ranged attacks of my own, and the ability to use a 30m one depending on cooldown. I believe there's a 30m attack in the balance tree too, but i could be mistaken.

Jedi guardians/sentinels have things like multiple leaps, slow, 100% slow, stun, push, in-combat stealth, saber throw, etc. Vanguards have storm and harpoon, along with the above CC listed for my commando. Scoundrel DPS have quite a bit of CC as well.

TLDR; Melee aren't at a disadvantage in terms of CC, and they aren't without tools to work around range. Learn to take better advantage of the resolve bar, and use the tools at your disposal to keep the fight at a range where you're effective. Good melee do this, bad ones don't. The same is true for ranged classes...

Benets's Avatar


Benets
02.10.2012 , 05:14 PM | #49
People say, but once melee aim you, is impossible to get free. This game's pvp is sucking, too slow, all the time you got charge, you got stunned, rooted, slowed.

Very annyoing. Once you got charge or hit by melee is GG, you cant get rid of him. No matter what you do, charge (leap of force) cooldown is too short speacially reseting with knowckback. And the range of melee is to high, 4 meters, when you got hit you cant get away enough to do something, and as cloth you got **** very easly.

This game's pvp is turning the same path wow did, and the pvp in wow is garbage.
- "Do or do not, there's no try" -
Benets
aka
Mxyzptlk

evilbond's Avatar


evilbond
02.10.2012 , 05:14 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Kjetl View Post
Your analyses ignores the other major form of CC -- charge / gap closers.
operatives have neither