The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

I'm new to pvp warzones for a couple of days now.

The first thing i thought was : **** , f*ck sorc, they need to be nerfed, im sick of the CC'ing, slowing down, where i am not able to hit 70% of the time my enemy sorc due to CC. I got one skill : unleashed to unstun me, with a CD of 2 min. basically he can CC me most of the time.

Then i came to check on the forums and read this. Flame cause i'm new to it, but my first impression was : nerf sorc, and i'm sure im not the only one out there.

P.S The thought that I SOLELY thought of sorc and not any other class should be an indication me thinks.

There are a number of hybrid specs, mostly because the lower down talents for Sorcs are far too good. I didn't look at his spec, but I think he hit the highlights of a lot of the abusive talents in his spec.

Bioware has gone hunting hybrid specs and classes that are slightly out of balance. Sorcs are both abusive while hybrid specs and out of balance. An intelligent Sorc would ask for reasonable rearangement of their talent trees that wouldn't affect a 31 point spec but will eliminate or tone down a hybrid spec. That's the best chance to avoid a numbers nerf that just turns the Sorc into a CC*****.

ALERT: Read this -ENTIRE- first post before posting ANYTHING on this thread. Do not post vague generalizations. Respond to the points I actually made in this post. Do not join the long list of painfully stupid posts that had nothing to do with the actual content of the thread and everything to do with the title of the read.


The actual Sorcerer talents do not need to be nerfed at all. The only thing Bioware needs to do is rearrange the talent trees to disallow overpowered hybrid specs from making the class far more powerful than the devs intended. Lightning/Madness hybrids cause far too much imbalance.

The main problem is Sorcs have hybrid specs that are far too effective and they get far too many perks from all trees.

"Lightning Barrier" - Gives 20% increased absorption to Static Barrier. Tier 2 talent. This needs to be far higher up the Lightning tree. Lightning Sorcs need this talent because of their need to stand still and leave themselves more vulnerable to damage. Madness Sorcs and hybrids do not.

"Electric Bindings" - Adds a 5 second immobilize to their 20 second knockback "Overload". Tier 3 talent. Again this talent is needed for a 31 point Lightning PvP build to be effective but for all other specs it's just a ridiculous amount of utility that they don't need. This needs to be moved up the tree.

"Wrath" - Force Lightning damage has a 30% chance to make your next cast instant and do +20% damage. This is the talent that allows hybrid Sorcerers to surpass the 31-point specs. This makes it insanely effective to build hybrid and use the proc for instant cast "Chain Lightning".

"Lightning Barrage" - Affliction critical hits have a 100% chance to cause your next "Force Lightning" to channel and tick twice as fast(10s CD). This talent gives further incentive to the hybrid Lightning/Madness build. In PvP it causes Sorcerers to have a surprising amount of burst. While this talent isn't a problem on it's own it does further the gap between hybrid specs and proper 31-point specs. It's nonsense to have this talent in the Lightning Tree when you consider that "Force Lightning" is Madness's main filler. Lightning spec is supposed to use Lightning Strike.

"Backlash" - Causes "Static Barrier" to apply a 3 second CC to surrounding targets upon breaking. Shouldn't be in the hands of hybrids. Period. This is only balanced in the hands of an incredibly immobile caster.

"Lightning Storm" - 30% chance on "Lightning Strike" to reset the CD of Chain Lightning and cause it to be instant-cast the next time you use it(10s CD). Essentially a second Wrath. Combine the two and you have a spec that can use instant-cast Chain Lightning with disgusting frequency.

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Here is an example of a hybrid spec.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZfcMMdRbZcrcRsMk.1

The obvious issue here is the fact that a Sorcerer using a spec such as this gets all the utility of both Lightning and Madness without sacrificing much.

A Madness Sorcerer is supposed to have some CC and a lot of Mobility due to a reliance on instant casts and DoT effects.

A Lightning Sorcer is supposed to have a lot of defensive CC and very limited Mobility due to reliance on hard casts.

The problem is that the hybrid spec has both the Mobility of Madness and the defensive CC of Lightning at the same time while also having greater damage than either spec.

This is the amount of utility a hybrid has:

Strong Bubble
5s Immobilize attached to a 20s Knockback
Unlimited Regen through the combined talents of both specs.
Spammable Instant-Cast Chain Lightning(This spell hits VERY hard and is an AoE)
3s Immobilize attached to the end of Bubble
Abnormal mobility through DoTs and a 20s Dash
Incredible Burst that surpasses the burst that either of the full 31pt specs can come close to outputting.
The best PvP AoE damage in the entire game through DoT spam, Death Field, and Chain Lightning.
Instant Cast Whirlwind and a 2-second stun attached to breaking Whirlwind.
Self-Healing


What I'm trying to emphasize is how stupidly well the bottom halves of the two trees synergize. It's obviously not intended and needs to be changed without breaking the full 31 point specs. Bioware needs to move the incredibly good talents further up the tree and move some of the weaker talents down to the lower tiers.



DISCLAIMER:
I don't care if hybrid specs exist.

I care when those hybrid specs break the game by making a class disgustingly overpowered.

I'm not asking for an end to Sorcerer hybrids.

I just want the hybrids to not have access to the utility talents in Lightning so they're not so incredibly powerful compared to the 31-point specs.

In their current state they're overpowered in every way.

With this change people wouldn't feel stupid for NOT using a hybrid spec because right now anyone using a 31-point build is gimping themselves as Sorcerers.

With this change people would still have the option to spec hybrid and do the same damage, they just wouldn't have disgustingly overpowered utility from BOTH trees.

It's incredibly stupid for hybrids to be like some ultimate fusion of two specs that's far more overpowered than either 31-point build. This isn't Dragonball Z.

That's the best case. Then look at balance again in 2 weeks once people have figured out the new talent trees.

The worst case is they leave the talents as is, knock 25% of the duration of lighting and add a second to the channel, reduce the bubble by half strength, reduce healing 20% etc etc. Give them the Operative treatment. Totally missing the fact the hybrid problem.

While I concur with the OP that hybrid sorcs have a bit too much CCs I would also like to encourage him to no longer exploit the Pure Shockfrozen Water bug. If you really have to brag with your 11 commendations in a huttball and it shows 100k healing, everybody should by now know what's cooking. (75k Healing Commendation, as well as 2,5k and 5k single heal Commendations) It undermines the sincerity of his concerns about Sorcs.

Getting 7 or 8 commendation with a damage dealer is still good, gonna give him that.

The only thing I disagree with is the absorption talent.

Sorc/Sage healers are very reliant on their bubbles. VERY reliant.

All specs for sorc/sage are reliant on the bubble.

Its just a hybrid spec gets that + the majority of the CC utility available.

A Full balance sage isn't going to do the burst that other classes do, they have to survive long enough for their DoT's to ramp up.

A Full Tk sage isnt going to have the mobility of a balance sage they are pure casters
They have to survive long enough to cast so their damage can actually happen

A Healer isnt going to do the damage that either TK or Balance can do. They have to heal, and they rely on the bubble to keep both themselves and their teammates alive.