The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

That is infinitely higher than zero

Sorc + tank combo pretty easy kill, gimme a break.

Both have CC they can stun lock you 'till you're dead meat. Sure, if they both suck and don't LoS RDPS, they'll die, but a good sage / sorc + a good tank, cycling CC , taunts, pull, assisting targets, is simply too much. Also, BURST THE TANK LAWL.

What if... Another tank uses guard on said focused tank. Just gimme a break about HOW EASY IT IS TO KILL A TANK + SORC combo.

No, theorycrafting is in favor of the tank + sorc combo if you don't have a similar duo in your group. 2 DPS won't take down a good tank + sorc combo. They have all the tools to mez 1, taunt the other one and take him out in less than 10 secs. If said DPS is guarded, then it's closer, but then the only combination that can compete with Sorc + tank is similarly specced / geared Sage + tank.

The reason Sorcs/Sages are OP in PvP: The are highly visible.

Perception has a lot to do with the whole "Sorcs/Sages are OP" crowd.

Lightning, TT, bubbles, pulls, etc.

Sorcs/Sages aren't about burst DPS, they are about sustained DPS. Whether it is a channeled ability or a DoT. If you don't follow the trail to them and take them out, yes, they will probably pwn you. Why? Because you didn't do anything about an enemy that was out to destroy you.

Same could be said about any other ranged DPS class. If you let a Sniper/Gunslinger make you an easy target, you deserve to get pwned. Those classes are about burst damage and big crits, though, unlike the Sorcs/Sages.

The sheer amount of Sorcs/Sages also feeds into the whole "they are OP" mentality. If you have half a dozen of ANY class primary'ing you with no backup, you'll get pwned as well.

Bottom line: It's more about population than actual ability. If you had dozens of Scoundrels/Operatives swarming around, people would be QQing just as hard.

STOP THAT -_-.


Also..Has anyone ever thought to make Wrath proc for ONLY Crushing Darkness...Like the Assassins Raze only procs for crushing Darkness.


If Wrath worked like its AC mirror

-Hybrids lose the ability to instant Chain Lightning
-You lose all reasons to make a hybrid.

Sorcerers do not need to be nerfed at all. The only thing Bioware needs to do is rearrange the talent trees to disallow overpowered hybrid specs from making the class far more powerful than the devs intended.

ALERT: Read this -ENTIRE- first post before posting ANYTHING on this thread. Do not post vague generalizations. Respond to the points I actually made in this post. Do not join the long list of painfully stupid posts that had nothing to do with the actual content of the thread and everything to do with the title of the read.


Sorcerers do not need to be nerfed at all. The only thing Bioware needs to do is rearrange the talent trees to disallow overpowered hybrid specs from making the class far more powerful than the devs intended. Lightning/Madness hybrids cause far too much imbalance.

The main problem is Sorcs have hybrid specs that are far too effective and they get far too many perks from all trees.

"Lightning Barrier" - Gives 20% increased absorption to Static Barrier. Tier 2 talent. This needs to be far higher up the Lightning tree. Lightning Sorcs need this talent because of their need to stand still and leave themselves more vulnerable to damage. Madness Sorcs and hybrids do not.

"Electric Bindings" - Adds a 5 second immobilize to their 20 second knockback "Overload". Tier 3 talent. Again this talent is needed for a 31 point Lightning PvP build to be effective but for all other specs it's just a ridiculous amount of utility that they don't need. This needs to be moved up the tree.

"Wrath" - Force Lightning damage has a 30% chance to make your next cast instant and do +20% damage. This is the talent that allows hybrid Sorcerers to surpass the 31-point specs. This makes it insanely effective to build hybrid and use the proc for instant cast "Chain Lightning".

"Lightning Barrage" - Affliction critical hits have a 100% chance to cause your next "Force Lightning" to channel and tick twice as fast(10s CD). This talent gives further incentive to the hybrid Lightning/Madness build. In PvP it causes Sorcerers to have a surprising amount of burst. While this talent isn't a problem on it's own it does further the gap between hybrid specs and proper 31-point specs. It's nonsense to have this talent in the Lightning Tree when you consider that "Force Lightning" is Madness's main filler. Lightning spec is supposed to use Lightning Strike.

"Backlash" - Causes "Static Barrier" to apply a 3 second CC to surrounding targets upon breaking. Shouldn't be in the hands of hybrids. Period. This is only balanced in the hands of an incredibly immobile caster.

"Lightning Storm" - 30% chance on "Lightning Strike" to reset the CD of Chain Lightning and cause it to be instant-cast the next time you use it(10s CD). Essentially a second Wrath. Combine the two and you have a spec that can use instant-cast Chain Lightning with disgusting frequency.

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Here is an example of a hybrid spec.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZfcMMdRbZcrcRsMk.1

The obvious issue here is the fact that a Sorcerer using a spec such as this gets all the utility of both Lightning and Madness without sacrificing much.

A Madness Sorcerer is supposed to have some CC and a lot of Mobility due to a reliance on instant casts and DoT effects.

A Lightning Sorcer is supposed to have a lot of defensive CC and very limited Mobility due to reliance on hard casts.

The problem is that the hybrid spec has both the Mobility of Madness and the defensive CC of Lightning at the same time while also having greater damage than either spec.

This is the amount of utility a hybrid has:

Strong Bubble
5s Immobilize attached to a 20s Knockback
Unlimited Regen through the combined talents of both specs.
Spammable Instant-Cast Chain Lightning(This spell hits VERY hard and is an AoE)
3s Immobilize attached to the end of Bubble
Abnormal mobility through DoTs and a 20s Dash
Incredible Burst that surpasses the burst that either of the full 31pt specs can come close to outputting.
The best PvP AoE damage in the entire game through DoT spam, Death Field, and Chain Lightning.
Instant Cast Whirlwind and a 2-second stun attached to breaking Whirlwind.
Self-Healing


What I'm trying to emphasize is how stupidly well the bottom halves of the two trees synergize. It's obviously not intended and needs to be changed without breaking the full 31 point specs. Bioware needs to move the incredibly good talents further up the tree and move some of the weaker talents down to the lower tiers.



DISCLAIMER:
I don't care if hybrid specs exist.

I care when those hybrid specs break the game by making a class disgustingly overpowered.

I'm not asking for an end to Sorcerer hybrids.

I just want the hybrids to not have access to the utility talents in Lightning so they're not so incredibly powerful compared to the 31-point specs.

In their current state they're overpowered in every way.

With this change people wouldn't feel stupid for NOT using a hybrid spec because right now anyone using a 31-point build is gimping themselves as Sorcerers.

With this change people would still have the option to spec hybrid and do the same damage, they just wouldn't have disgustingly overpowered utility from BOTH trees.

It's incredibly stupid for hybrids to be like some ultimate fusion of two specs that's far more overpowered than either 31-point build. This isn't Dragonball Z.