What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

Numbers don't dictate what's right or wrong. The only thing that proves is there are a lot of people who hardly relish and enjoy PvP as it is, and they need a candy or a cookie to get themselves going.

Now, attending to these majority of people is not necessarily a bad thing, but the problem is the folk who PvP to farm gear or items, only PvP for that specific purpose. Giving them unlimited supply of constantly new, higher grade, better spec gear ultimately hurts the game in a very serious matter which I'd like to call, "power inflation".

Gears should influence the outcome of the game somewhat, but it should never be so powerful as to solely determine an outcome of a fight. When the overall level of gear starts to crawl up, the less and less 'skill' become important, and in the end the game basically degrades down to a pure-spec, performance steamrolling.

The influence of items has to halt at some point, and that means, the constant 'need' to get a new piece of overpowered T-shirts is going to stop at some point as well.

And when that time comes, where are the "I only PvP for rewards" people going to go?

Yes, they are the majority, but that only means they are like a flock of sheep or cows who follow the grazing paths, oblivious of whether there's a cliff over the next mound or not.

Amen, this thread is a joke... no way to make these people happy... the sooner they leave the better...

You do realise if too many people leave for whatever reason may have, the servers will become even more empty than they already are?
Then the people who stuck will feel, damn there arent enough people to play with.
Either theyll think over am I going to lvl 4 chars again of the same faction on another server or will I just quit till servers get merged or free transfers are coming up?
That or people will completely switch from being a rep to a imp and vice versa (not per se on the same server as their orginal one) and give that a shot.
Exile crystal rep side is mostly empty on alot of the planets. Doing some of the heroic 2+ is quite doable solo but all the heroic 4+ have to be skipped. Unless youre in a guild with a reasonable amount of active people and all of diverse roles (not just dps) you're in a good position to enjoy the mmo part of this game. Else it's either pvp like silly or roll an alt assumming you're not already doing that.

Well said.

The thing that is odd about this is that they call us lazy, as if there is no work involved in skill based PVP. I spent hours practicing with my friends to be in the top five duelists on my server in SWG. But that's the kind of work that is entertaining while you are working. Suggesting that to be "good" at PVP you have to volunteer to be slaughtered by people with no lives over and over again is ridiculous. Being good at PVP in a game where gear is not so over the top requires diligent work on your build, your rotation and play style. Your timing, reflexes etc.

What is even more funny is these people who claim that people who do not want to grind gear are "bad" players.

In order to be "good" at something or "bad" at something there needs to be some sort of requirement for skill. Suggesting that because you did more grinding then someone else means you are "better" then them is so illogical. It is what I would call mentally lazy. These people want to the illusion of superiority granted to them when all they have to do is hit a few buttons and win. This generation of PVPers seems to be a bastard child of bad PVPers from before who want to utilize PVE mechanics to "win" at PVP. (Which is again ironic, as they generally for some reason try go say that people who suggest that gear should not have an impact on PVP are "carebears" who need to go "back to a PVE server".

PVP is PLAYER vs PLAYER. If you really think that you want to be measured for your ability to waste time more then someone else rather then being able to overcome them with quick thinking and strategy then you should really re-evaluate what you believe makes you "good" or "elite".

The wins you get when you know you outsmarted your opponent are SOOOO much more satisfying then wins that came because someone could not significantly damage you.

Agreed.

And "defeat" is a term you use loosely at that point. Because while you are technically standing over their bodies, it comes back to the analogy I gave earlier of the couch potato with a gun "defeating" the 5th degree black belt in "combat".

The gear gap with fresh 50 and bm 50s is nowhere near the gap between a 5x120 legendary UO player and a GM. 120parry/wrestling and a GM melee wouldnt come close to hurting me... being completely naked.

How is farming gear any different than going 120 in a skill in UO? You're grinding it out for hours at a time (assuming you dont exploit)

I love how those of us who have PVP gear have "no life"... PVP gear is so easy to get. Do your dailies and weeklies, you'll be one of us "no lifers" in a few weeks.

I know this argument was over some time ago. (With you losing) but I find myself morbidly curious, kind of like watching a train wreck. So I will ask you again.

You suggest that people who want skill based PVP with no gear advantage are "skilless". Can you please explain rationally how your logic is supposed to work?

We are suggesting that skill should be THE deciding factor. And you are suggesting that it requires skill to PVP in the environment where some code on your gear can cause you to win even if your opponent is more skilled then you.

I know you were hoping you could just kind of make fun of people and insult them and repeat this failed logic over and over again and we would just go away, but I am afraid that is not going to work as well as you think. I am no stranger to trolls trying to dumb down a conversation to a level they can articulate by trying to distract the audience with insults and personal attacks. But it's logically fallacious. It's called ad hominem.

Lets break this down into very simple terms.

If we are running the 100 meter dash, and you start on the 50 meter line, while everyone else started at the 100 meter line, did you win because you were more "skilled"? Have you proven to be a more successful runner in this situation?

When you get the medal and stand on the podium, would it not be kind of ridiculous for you to then spit on the people who actually had to work to get 2cd and 3rd place and call them "scrubs" because if they had mindlessly clicked more buttons at a computer as you had then they would be "better" runners and get to start at the 50 meter line too?

You can continue to repeat yourself. (And now you are not even bothering to try and argue, because your point is indefensible and you know it. So you are resorting to what bad politicians and schoolyard bullies have to do when they feel insecure because someone is clearly making them look foolish through logic.) You can continue to hope that if you call the people making real points against you enough names that nobody will listen to them. But you will not be "right". And anyone foolish enough to discount someone else's arguments solely because you called them a "scrub" is just as foolish.

So, answer this basic point. How does starting at the 50 meter in the 100 meter dash make you a "better" runner?

And if you were "better" why did you need the advantage?

This is kind of basic logic. And calling me names to try and "win" this debate is not logical.

But they would just say your problem is a lack of skill. Because clearly someone surviving four people pounding on them had nothing to do with them taking no damage from you and inflicting more damage on you.

The PVP community has been hijacked by people who believe that they should be able to use PVE mechanics (grinding) to somehow "earn" the right to have such victories HANDED to them.

Meanwhile, they somehow manage to suggest that everyone else who suggests that such things should not happen want things handed to them instead. Which is asinine.