Alot people forget that this game is new...

I've never seen such a complete collection of illogic displayed as "argument" before.

1) No one cares what WoW had at launch: Very simply, we are not competing with WoW "at launch", or EQ "at launch", or Spongbob Squarepants "at launch". People are going to say

Game A has Features 1 , 2, 3, 4, and 5.
Game B has Features 1 and 4.

Game A has more of the features I want. Choice made.

If damage meters and logs and all of that are important to someone enjoying the game then they would be stupid to invest any money in SWTOR until such time as it ACTUALLY implements such things.

2) Saying WoW or any other game had problems as launch does not excuse the excreable showing made thus far by Bioware

How much time did WoW spend in beta? How long in development? How much money was spent? How about EQ? RIFT, wait, there's a good recent MMO that launched with almost no bugs.

There is a vast difference between saying "WoW sucked at launch", which it did, and saying "Since WoW sucked at launch it's okay if SWTOR sucks at launch" which is not. Games that suck at launch nowdays (Warhammer, AFB, Tabula Rasa, Matrix, STO, LOTRO) tend to end up F2P , casualties, or broken and empty.

If you spent (pick a figure 80 million, 150 million, 200 million, 300 million) and (pick a number 3, 5, or 7) years in development and a month's long massive beta and nearly two months live , you very simply should not have bugs where you can't even get a stupid WZ counter to register a win. The bugs in raids are NOT ACCEPTABLE. Raid bosses who reset themselves is not acceptable. Raid loot that is subpar or vanishes or assigns itself in a stupid manner is not acceptable. Saying "But WOW didn't have this" just makes you sound like the people claiming the game sucks because it doesn't have a feature WoW does.

3) Common sense has to be applied - there simply is no reason for these features to be left out. What EVERYONE blithely skips over is that these features weren't in at WoW's launch because some of them hadn't even been developed.

NO ONE had come out with a dungeon finder.
NO ONE had come out with gearscore like tools
NO ONE had come out with real "damage meters" just log parsers, and they were a pain.

Of course these things weren't in at launch, they weren't invented yet!!

EVERY single MMO -- without exception -- has launched with a combat log in recent years. Even STO, which couldn't even figure out anything else, had a log. SWTOR's explanation for not having one? It's bugged.

EVERY single MMO has provided some elements of UI customization from the start in recent years. SWTOR's explanation for not having one? Um...we'll get back to you.

I'm sorry but no one should have to waste $60 to see basic features every other game launches with.

4) No one expects perfect PVP balance at launch. There is a difference between that and expecting at least some level of actual concern. When people display long lists of large disparities between Empire and Republic classes, and you launch a SHOCKINGLY bad PVP system that encourages all the worst aspects of goonery, ********s, facerolling through WZ, AFKing, and of course, intstgibbing new players, we have every right to say "Dude, ***.".

I, myself, am sick of people defending designers from facing the reality of piss-poor design choices. I can understand ability delay, no damage meters, issues with parts of the NM level raids, minor bugs, lags and crashes. I can tolerate broken questlines, a GTN that is non-optimal, and annoyances in gear, leveling and content. I can endure crappy PVP taken nearly point for point on two maps right out of Warhammer, and an anemic end-game.

But don't expect anyone to golf-clap Bioware for not even bothering to hit the lowest end of the bar in every single category of the game besides story.

You still cannot compare TOR launch to WoW launch.
Want to know why?

Because when you release game with the intention of beating the heavy competition, then you have something that can compete with them. Such as a LFG tool or anything else this sinking ship is lacking.
THEN you add something new and innovative and win.

If you do not start out on a competitive level from the start, you're years behind.

do you guys ever get tired of repeating yourselves or do you enjoy smashing your face into a brick wall over and over.

People are whining for Dungeon Finders, Damage Meters, Threath meters, Healing Meters, Balanced PVP etc etc. And I understand that, cause I want those things aswell.

BUT stop saying that SW:ToR is a failed game because they don't have all this, while for example WoW does. WoW had NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING, of this at launch.


So let me give you abit of an insight what was available at WoW's launch.

Dungeon Finder? No, there was a tool similiar to the "Who" tool available in SW:ToR. They improved it by time, and so will also BioWare do.

Balanced PVP? Not even close. Some classes was absolutely unbeatable if played with a sense of skill, while some didn't stand a chance even when mastered. This is actually true. PVP in Vanilla WoW was not balanced at all. Not to mention that it took over a year to actually make things kind of balanced.

Different kind of "meters"? No. Damage meters like Recount are add-ons. An add-on is something you add on to your game, to make it better. Add-ons are created by the community. Combat logs are requierd to make add-ons like these and they aren't available yet in SW:ToR. But, people were fine without all those add-ons in the what some call "the best time" of WoW, the start.

Bugged raids? There was not a large amount of bugs in the raids on start, but why? Because nearly all fights were tank and spank, exept Ragnaros and Onyxia, and these bosses didn't have any really complex mechanics. With today's standard of boss fights, it's alot harder to create completely bug-free fights. As time goes, BioWare will fix this issue aswell.



I'm getting tierd of people making assumptions that WoW had everything it has today at start, because it didn't. It's been improving, and SW:ToR will do aswell. The developers have just completed an awesome game, that really gives you a relation to your character, your companions and people you interact with during the story-line. All this due to the absolutely awesome work with the voices and quests overall.


I could make an list what SW:ToR had from the absolute start, that WoW didn't have, but I'll skip that, since it will take ages. Just think of it..

I find it very odd. I think the lack of MMO experience really shows in this area. Bioware just isn't accustomed to having to interact with their customer at the level that an MMO requires.

The above rant is, of course, just one persons opinion -- mine.