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Why even make a Jedi?


quezcotl's Avatar


quezcotl
02.08.2012 , 05:27 AM | #91
why are you so strict about the code of honor?
this is the time where they let in many jedis, who had romances/ did their own thing.
We know for ex, even my reletives in the "riddarhuset/knights house" here in Sweden, that knights murdered,***** and stole from farmers even though their oath was loyality to the king and always protect the weak and poor.
Same with samurais(which jedis with bushido is heavly drawn from) sometimes abandon their daiymo and his masters wish and code of honor in battle.

VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
02.08.2012 , 11:57 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by TonkaBix View Post
I don't see how what I said makes me a bad roleplayer.
Because the whole point of being a Roleplayer, is that you make decisions based on what your Character will do, and not what You will do. If you can't make decisions for your character without being able to relate to them, then you are not playing a character, you're playing yourself.

That said, anyone who hasn't made it past Courscant, really has no place in saying how Jedi are, or aren't, because you are basing your decision on the most structured and restricted part of a Jedi's life.

That's a bit like basing your opinion on what life as a solider is like, based purely on boot camp.

Nyaralath's Avatar


Nyaralath
02.08.2012 , 01:18 PM | #93
You're right...the Jedi are useless scum. Join the Sith! Dominate the galaxy...crave excitement and adventure!
Khoonda's Militia
Ragnark - Trooper
Nyralath - Sith Juggernaut

Intarabus's Avatar


Intarabus
02.08.2012 , 04:57 PM | #94
About the Tython quest, many oversee that in the consular quest
Spoiler


For me it was never a question I start off as Jedi. Why? Because I wanted to play the good guys, and to me there is nothing boring in the concept of Jedi as seeing him as an enlightened, a little absent justice keeper, strolling around in the galaxy and helping others.

jackofrost's Avatar


jackofrost
02.08.2012 , 05:10 PM | #95
My Jedi is dark, specifically because light side "peace only" side is annoying.

Light Jedi = doing it wrong... I think based on the current in game jedi code, luke skywalker would be considered dark side.

gaskull's Avatar


gaskull
02.09.2012 , 01:45 AM | #96
It sure would be allot more interessting to be a "warrior" aided/strenghtened by the force aiding the troops under his/her command, that's my version of a Sith, that's what I'd like to be, supporting the troops on the field of battle, aswell as achieving such a position that I can put resources into research/manufacturing of military equipment [and experimental technology] to boost the offensive capabilitys of a single trooper, aswell as starships etc. Playing as SI, I actually get to experience some of that

Playing as Republic was never seen as an option by me

Darksider, Darth-Reyeja-Kāli.
THE-KĀLI-CLAN/LEGACY
ReyejaRai'omRystayaGrivainth
Pasjjaya Yjassath
Rehl'anoe Or'ishan

Krumple's Avatar


Krumple
02.09.2012 , 03:35 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKeredias View Post
For a moment, I would like to speak briefly about The Jedi in general and why I feel that playing a Jedi in the game is for the most part, pointless.

Growing up as a kid and watching Star Wars, I always had fantasies of being a Jedi, I'm sure you all did at some point. However, I feel that the way Jedi are represented now is a complete mockery.

Sacrificing your emotions and all normal responsibilities and instinct is like taking a needle and lobotomizing yourself, taking away all aspects of a person that makes them, them. If emotion does indeed "blind us", then how on Earth were these people ever motivated to establish the order?

Obviously, you wanted something done, you wanted to protect the galaxy. It is that want and drive, that alone is part of an emotion. So does that make the Jedi hypocrites? Possibly.

Speaking in actuality, I find the Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular storylines and characters to be completely unrelatable and boring. I do not feel any emotional attachment to my character while playing them and I feel like I have as much emotion as a Protocol Droid.

The Sith have their alternative beliefs, but they also carry with them, themselves. They keep their emotions, they keep their love, hatred, whatever. They get to keep their emotions and they have the drive to see something done. So my question is, why even play as a Jedi?

Why be someone that is hard to relate to, when you can be a Sith Warrior and go lightside without the hazards or limitations of a guideline? Yes, normally light side options are looked down by Sith players, but I don't think of Jedi or Sith as stereotypes, I just think of them as different perspectives.

Take for example, Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, both movies directed by Clint Eastwood. I hated Flags of our Fathers because it told a very sappy and illiterate story, I didn't feel sorry for these people that had 15 minutes of fame. I also felt as though that the American side had less sympathy and were blinded by their orders and duty as "soldiers". Letters from Iwo Jima on the other hand, while the Japanese are considered as enemies in our eyes, through their eyes they are only serving their country and doing what they think is right. They have honor, respect and most of all culture.

So all in all, my question to you all is, why did you choose to create a Jedi Knight or Consular? What are you reasons? Is it because you feel that picking the good side is just and a normality, or is your childhood love of the original trilogy or for the ten of you out there the prequel trilogy, just?
Give into your hate... The jedi are weak, pathetic and might as well be droids. Peace is a lie...

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
02.11.2012 , 02:57 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKeredias View Post
For a moment, I would like to speak briefly about The Jedi in general and why I feel that playing a Jedi in the game is for the most part, pointless.

Growing up as a kid and watching Star Wars, I always had fantasies of being a Jedi, I'm sure you all did at some point. However, I feel that the way Jedi are represented now is a complete mockery.

Sacrificing your emotions and all normal responsibilities and instinct is like taking a needle and lobotomizing yourself, taking away all aspects of a person that makes them, them. If emotion does indeed "blind us", then how on Earth were these people ever motivated to establish the order?

Obviously, you wanted something done, you wanted to protect the galaxy. It is that want and drive, that alone is part of an emotion. So does that make the Jedi hypocrites? Possibly.

Speaking in actuality, I find the Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular storylines and characters to be completely unrelatable and boring. I do not feel any emotional attachment to my character while playing them and I feel like I have as much emotion as a Protocol Droid.

The Sith have their alternative beliefs, but they also carry with them, themselves. They keep their emotions, they keep their love, hatred, whatever. They get to keep their emotions and they have the drive to see something done. So my question is, why even play as a Jedi?

Why be someone that is hard to relate to, when you can be a Sith Warrior and go lightside without the hazards or limitations of a guideline? Yes, normally light side options are looked down by Sith players, but I don't think of Jedi or Sith as stereotypes, I just think of them as different perspectives.

Take for example, Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima, both movies directed by Clint Eastwood. I hated Flags of our Fathers because it told a very sappy and illiterate story, I didn't feel sorry for these people that had 15 minutes of fame. I also felt as though that the American side had less sympathy and were blinded by their orders and duty as "soldiers". Letters from Iwo Jima on the other hand, while the Japanese are considered as enemies in our eyes, through their eyes they are only serving their country and doing what they think is right. They have honor, respect and most of all culture.

So all in all, my question to you all is, why did you choose to create a Jedi Knight or Consular? What are you reasons? Is it because you feel that picking the good side is just and a normality, or is your childhood love of the original trilogy or for the ten of you out there the prequel trilogy, just?
Not that I want to derail this or anything, but the qualities that you enjoyed about Letters to Iwo Jima are precisely the same qualities that others enjoyed about Flags of our fathers. Praising one over the other is pointless, unless you have an anime bias.

whiskers's Avatar


whiskers
02.11.2012 , 04:55 AM | #99
A lot of people have said Bioware failed at this or failed at that because its not like Luke Skywalker or Mace windou or some other such character from the original star wars saga.

For one, that saga was set in 1 small section of the full extended universes history. (And yes we need to include the full extended universe into consideration because little to none of the movies are at all referenced or included in SWTOR, its all extended universe based)

Now as for Luke Skywalker, he was far far from a traditional Jedi. Look at the order he created after the fall of the empire. In his order love and relationships were allowed I believe. It was much more relaxed, where as if you compare to the order in KOTOR 1, even going to help out entire systems being burned by the Mandalorians was a darkside choice (according to the council) punishable by apparently exile.

My theory (just a theory), is that the larger a jedi order gets the more arrogant they become because inner politics (which is inescapable in any organization) corrupts and tempts the masters too much, for them to remain pure and emotionless as the code suggests.

My point is that the jedi order of any given time is vastly based on who is on the council, just like the culture of a company is based on its Senior Management Group and the decisions they make.

As for light side dark side, Bioware definitely understands (when looking at some of their games like Dragon Age) that there is no right and wrong.
As Nietzsche once said "There are no facts, only opinions", or as Hamlet said in Shakespere's play "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so"

A person's beliefs and perspectives drastically alter their viewpoints on what is moral and immoral, and they have tried to convey that within the restrictions of the black and white universe that is star wars.

But when you look at it again, and how arrogant a lot of the jedi might be, and the glimmers of hope in some of the sith lords as they occasionally choose morally, you see that star wars actually isn't black and white. Like our world, they all think of themselves as black and white, selfless and selfish (for reasons of ego and self-worth), but in actuality are many shades of grey.
So choosing jedi or sith is more of a political choice between republic and empire, then a moral one, and hence Dark Jedi and Light Sith make sense if you understand the difference between politics and morality. (They say all politicians are evil because there is no way with the sorts of decisions they make, to be fully moral, your always going to hurt somebody despite how hard you try to be perfect)

As for the whole emotions issue, that aspect of the jedi are definitely based on Buddhism who believe that life is suffering. That desires, ambitions and addictions are all negative and should be warded against. I say warded against because they are like being in love, you don't choose to have those feelings, they just happen. All you can do is train yourself against them. And eventually you may find enlightenment (as the Buddhists say).

The reason for this philosophy amongst the jedi is because of the power they wield. As that line in spiderman goes: With great power comes great responsibility.
Its all about the risk, love has proven time and time again to lead to tragedy amongst very powerful individuals. (why do you think Superman refuses to give in to his love for Louis?)

And regarding the code itself, the code is like Nietzsche's Ubermensch (aka superman, or ideal person, much like a "fully enlightened Buddhist"). It is a "perfect" ideal to strive for, such a person or such a state doesn't actually exist due to the impossibility of perfection itself. You can never have a perfect chair, or a perfect football play, but such perfections gives us direction and drive to better ourselves and become more and more similar to our ideal.
So in this light it is very important, and without it the jedi would be direction-less and achieve next to nothing.

As for the Sith apparently being too monstrous. Considering this is suppose to be the "true sith empire", and that they have been stewing in their little hidden corner of the galaxy for 1000s of years, planning, plotting a very very cold revenge, do you really think they would be anything but monsters?

In the inquisitor story, if you choose it, you can actually vocalize your ambition to change that aspect of the Sith, saying that its wrong.
There are no facts, only interpretations - Fredrich Nietzsche

whiskers's Avatar


whiskers
02.11.2012 , 05:06 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by jackofrost View Post
My Jedi is dark, specifically because light side "peace only" side is annoying.

Light Jedi = doing it wrong... I think based on the current in game jedi code, luke skywalker would be considered dark side.

btw, definitely agree with the luke thing here. He is a dark jedi, and that idea is supported by the fact that he wears black towards the end of the trilogy, which is star wars George Lucas uses as a symbol quite a lot.
Dark Vadar and the Emperor both wear black. Storm Troopers are cold white, because they aren't evil per-see they just follow orders, but aren't doing anything to help good.
The bounty hunters aren't black.
Yoda and Obi Wan wear white or off white browns.
Han Solo wears both white and black because he's torn between the 2.
There are no facts, only interpretations - Fredrich Nietzsche