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Healers = Alpha Class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Healers = Alpha Class
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Wildcat's Avatar


Wildcat
02.08.2012 , 01:17 PM | #161
A fully specced healer (Sage) is probably the easiest thing to kill.

I should know, I play one.

Which sucks in the warzones and in the "Red Rover" fest on Ilum. I can't directly kill an enemy as I lack any DPS or defenses whatsoever. I'm only good for healing others who can kill them for me.
Wildcat: 50 Sage, Wildkat: 50 Shadow, J'ackk: 45 Scoundrel, Thrashh: 39 Mercenary

Mohawksinspace's Avatar


Mohawksinspace
02.08.2012 , 01:20 PM | #162
TOR is a WoW-Clone mmo.

Healing was always too strong in WoW, healing will be too strong in wow-clones. The fact is healer 'resources' do not make healers very conservative with their heals, and push back from getting hit is laughably weak.

A lot of this ends up being the case because of the PvE model. Devs think bosses need to hit absurdly hard and as such healers need to heal absurdly well.
Ma'iq - Sith Assassin
Darkness - Gardens of Talla
CC Tips:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=283501

DrekorSilverfang's Avatar


DrekorSilverfang
02.08.2012 , 01:22 PM | #163
Quote: Originally Posted by Choppaman View Post
You bad dps need to shut up.

Just got rocked on my healer commando by a pyrotech BH.

DPS compounded with CC in this game is absolutely out of control. Stop being terrible.
That better have been a Pyro PT not a Pyro Merc... if it was a merc you are awful.

aeterno's Avatar


aeterno
02.08.2012 , 01:25 PM | #164
You're a PT right OP? Means you have more utility in the interrupt/control area than most if not all other DPS classes.

Try chasing down a healer as say a dps jugg. You'll litterary just chase him around with only the satisfaction of knowing he's not healing his teammates to show for it. Precious little in terms of interrupts and cc at your disposal.

It does get annoying when it becomes obvious that you're gonna loose a WZ 1min after starting it when you see you got nothing support wise in your group and the other side has 3 guarded healers, but hey, that's just life.

Sometimes the guy that ends up the WZ with half a million healed is on your team and sometimes he aint.

Ruuprect's Avatar


Ruuprect
02.08.2012 , 01:26 PM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
A fully specced healer (Sage) is probably the easiest thing to kill.

I should know, I play one.

Which sucks in the warzones and in the "Red Rover" fest on Ilum. I can't directly kill an enemy as I lack any DPS or defenses whatsoever. I'm only good for healing others who can kill them for me.
^^This^^

I am not sure where ppl get any other idea than this. I like playing my healer sage but a smart team can put me down in seconds. This sage you saw get through the fire was probably at full health, popped hit only instant dot heal(which is very weak), popped bubble, got cc'd, used cc breaker, force ran out of fire, and healed himself with another instant dot. If he was guarded the fire does not hit that hard and he very well could have been being healed by another healer you did not see nearby.

Not sure why this is an issue.

Ashes_Arizona's Avatar


Ashes_Arizona
02.08.2012 , 01:28 PM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
A fully specced healer (Sage) is probably the easiest thing to kill.

I should know, I play one.

Which sucks in the warzones and in the "Red Rover" fest on Ilum. I can't directly kill an enemy as I lack any DPS or defenses whatsoever. I'm only good for healing others who can kill them for me.
Most of the really problematic sage's aren't fully seer spec'd. They're hybrids. Now if you're full seer spec'd you're PvE spec'd so what do you expect, in PvP you're going to do the same thing as you do in PvE, stand back and heal.

I mean seriously I'm not on this board complaining that my Immortal Spec Juggernaut is more or less nothing but a walking hitpoint bar in PvP, I realize that the way I'm geared and spec'd on that class I'm designed for PvE only. Thus the BH PT AP spec, survivability and good slightly above average DPS.

But even though you can't directly kill an enemy, I can't kill you either, not as a single DPS.

Now lets talk about Red Rover cause I play that enough during the Ilum Republic zergs that happen twice a day. Yeah I definitely target anyone thats healing and yank them into the meat grinder. But thats a meat grinder, of course you're going to die.

WZ's are a different situation, theres no zerg meat grinder to drop you into. And as I've stated time and time again having to completely waste the effort of one person on your team simply to keep one healer on the other team too busy healing themselves to heal everyone else is really unproductive. And its almost especially unproductive when you're dealing with a team that has 4+ healers on it, cause it doesn't matter if you're locking one down or not, theres still 3 more healing and nothings getting done because of it.

I mark every healer I see in WZ's I call focuses, and we waste all our effort trying to put the healers down and thus the objectives get completely failed cause it takes at least 8 people to take down 4 healers and you'll be lucky if you get two of the four down half the time, before the enemy teams DPS output has put down 2/3rds of your team.

Whats the answer? Bring more healers! Which simply goes back to the topic of this post, Healers are the Alpha Class of PvP, alone, or in groups they dictate the outcome of any and all PvP engagements.

exphryl's Avatar


exphryl
02.08.2012 , 01:31 PM | #167
The healers that are getting 1v1 Wrecked against DPS.

Makes me think there are a lot of bad healers out there.

I am a Pyrotech BH in full BM Gear. We have probably the highest burst of any class out there right now. The bad to good played Sorcs I can blow up (if I get good crit RNG in a matter of seconds without even having to interrupt their heals. They just die).

The great Sorcs/Sages and Trooper/Mercs take a very long time and exhaust everything I have and at that point it is either I need to run to try to get rid of my heat or die as their reinforcements come. Which, in this situation. I feel the system is fine. I can't kill them they can't kill me. All is right in the world

Add in a Guarded Sorc. Sorry, it's good game people.

I love guard, it's an easy way to get medals and protect my team mates (even in a DPS Spec). But it needs to be restructured a bit since when you add Taunts in to the mix you can basically let the healer free cast while pounding on him and him not taking hardly any damage. (I imagine a lot of nerf healer threads stem from guarded healers)

I tend to ignore Operative healers, they just run and hot themselves nonstop and it's just not worth the trouble.

I also don't understand the "Full Heals do Low DPS!" argument. You don't. You do decent DPS. It's no where near the other trees you have, but it's considerable to whittle down the opponent while you keep your health at a manageable level.
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Ashes_Arizona's Avatar


Ashes_Arizona
02.08.2012 , 01:31 PM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by aeterno View Post
You're a PT right OP? Means you have more utility in the interrupt/control area than most if not all other DPS classes.

Try chasing down a healer as say a dps jugg. You'll litterary just chase him around with only the satisfaction of knowing he's not healing his teammates to show for it. Precious little in terms of interrupts and cc at your disposal.

It does get annoying when it becomes obvious that you're gonna loose a WZ 1min after starting it when you see you got nothing support wise in your group and the other side has 3 guarded healers, but hey, that's just life.

Sometimes the guy that ends up the WZ with half a million healed is on your team and sometimes he aint.
Force Charge? Backhand? Threatening Roar? I have a 50 Jugg btw. Sounds only variably different than my PT's Grapple, Electro-Dart, Carbonite Spray.

Calibretto's Avatar


Calibretto
02.08.2012 , 01:32 PM | #169
I agree that healers are a bit out of balance right now, but what's more annoying to me is the lag I get around trying to use kick. I have a good rig, good connection and good skills - I hardly EVER miss a kick in PvE. In PvP however I constantly kick to no avail or have kick otherwise act really wonky on me. That makes it hard for me to gauge how hard healers are to kill as I'm basically just sitting there trying to out dps their heals and hitting mistimed (not my fault) kicks. If I could interrupt them reliably then I'd have a much better idea of how tough they were.

Ruuprect's Avatar


Ruuprect
02.08.2012 , 01:40 PM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashes_Arizona View Post
Most of the really problematic sage's aren't fully seer spec'd. They're hybrids. Now if you're full seer spec'd you're PvE spec'd so what do you expect, in PvP you're going to do the same thing as you do in PvE, stand back and heal.

I mean seriously I'm not on this board complaining that my Immortal Spec Juggernaut is more or less nothing but a walking hitpoint bar in PvP, I realize that the way I'm geared and spec'd on that class I'm designed for PvE only. Thus the BH PT AP spec, survivability and good slightly above average DPS.

But even though you can't directly kill an enemy, I can't kill you either, not as a single DPS.

Now lets talk about Red Rover cause I play that enough during the Ilum Republic zergs that happen twice a day. Yeah I definitely target anyone thats healing and yank them into the meat grinder. But thats a meat grinder, of course you're going to die.

WZ's are a different situation, theres no zerg meat grinder to drop you into. And as I've stated time and time again having to completely waste the effort of one person on your team simply to keep one healer on the other team too busy healing themselves to heal everyone else is really unproductive. And its almost especially unproductive when you're dealing with a team that has 4+ healers on it, cause it doesn't matter if you're locking one down or not, theres still 3 more healing and nothings getting done because of it.

I mark every healer I see in WZ's I call focuses, and we waste all our effort trying to put the healers down and thus the objectives get completely failed cause it takes at least 8 people to take down 4 healers and you'll be lucky if you get two of the four down half the time, before the enemy teams DPS output has put down 2/3rds of your team.

Whats the answer? Bring more healers! Which simply goes back to the topic of this post, Healers are the Alpha Class of PvP, alone, or in groups they dictate the outcome of any and all PvP engagements.
What would be your solution then? No healers in WZ's? I got into 3 WZ's yesterday that had no healers, I respecced earlier because I wanted to dps a bit and get a feel for it. I got through with those matches and went back to heals because the matches were boring.

Both teams no healers-

Everyone dies in like 5 seconds, the deaths count at the end was rediculous. It is no fun when everyone is just running back from spawn constantly.

When I went back to healing we won every match - now healers make a big difference but without them its just boring - Would you limit the heal specs in every WZ? I could see that maybe. Then have both team only allowd 2 heals in each WZ to even out?

I dont know what solution you are looking for but there is always a way to beat a team with good healz. I have done 900k healing in a voidstar and we lost - how can you explain that if healz are the Alpha?
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