A Meeting of the Minds on LFG.

Though I agree with your premise of not paying for entertainment choices, the highlighted text could be a long debate and part of what the problem with the country is right now. People thinking they can do nothing about what goes on so just go with status quo, but that is not the topic so I will stop.

Anyway, I do agree that since we have the choice to pay for what entertainment we like, we are not going to pay for something that frustrates us.

Duel spec gives more flexibility to game play.

Players who enjoy healing (and often tanking) sometimes have a difficult time questing with those spec's. Sometimes it's just fun to "change things up" a bit and see what happens.

Often, different DPS spec's offer things that are more effective in certain situations. For example, Sorcer's Madness spec is a single target DPS spec while the lighning spec is more AoE based.

There are many reasons players like to play different specs. I would guess that the vast majoirty would prefer to have Duel Spec. And the most brilliant thing about DS is that if you only want one spec you only have to have one spec.

It opens the option to have two useable specs, it does not require that you do.

Whether or not something is "optional" is not a justification for doing it. Also, if "flexibility" is such a wonderful thing, why do we even have classes or specs?

How, exactly, does wanting to be able to do different things depending on the game-play I want at that time make me (or anyone else, for that matter) a moron?

The fact that you (or someone else) wants to play the same exact way every day, day in and day out, should not mean that everyone else should have to do the same. The fact that I (or someone else) want the option to play differntly depending on the situation shouldn't mean that people who like playing the same all the time should have to use that option.

It's about choice! Nothing more. If you choose to play exactly the same all the time, that's wonderful for you. I don't choose to play that way, and neither do a lot of other people. Frankly I'm tired of having to go to the Fleet every time I want to change up my game play for PvP or FP's or questing or whatever I'm doing that day.

Wanting options doesn't make me a moron, nor does it require your rude comments.

All this is true but you forget one major factor. A pure dps advanced class will have harder times finding groups then the hybrids. There is no incentive to bring a pure dps to the group when I can bring a Tank/DPS or a Healer/DPS to the group. If i need them to heal they can heal, if i need them to dps they can dps and the same pace as a pure dps.

The dual spec was a major part of the choice to add in the current incarnation of the LFG tool in WoW. There are a few issues with that tool. Overall does it do what its intended to do yes but with some very negative consequences that necessitated the addition of other systems to try and mitigate them. These systems where ineeffective at best and where not needed prior to the addition of the LFG tool as the Server community regulated its self via reputation of the player.

The current incarnation of the WoW LFG did destroy server community, you no longer have a choice who you group with and in fact are forced to use it should you want to find groups to run with. Yes some players are able to find groups without it but they are players that are in guilds and/or played with friends before the LFG tool. A new player has no choice in the matter they either use it or never find groups.

Your choices as a player to either be a kind and thoughtful player that knows how to play or a D-Bag player that could care less about anybody no longer matters. Point in fact the sudden surge of players acting like D-Bags on loot alone was the main factor in putting in the current loot rolling system where you can only need gear for your class. Prior to that event wow had for years just done the need before greed system.

I am all for a better LFG system then whats in the game and the devs have announced that its coming. I for one would rather discuss how to make that LFG tool something that appeals to everybody while at the same time addresses and resolves the concerns that so many players have brought up about having it in the game.

Then why does this game have more ninjas and more threads complaining about ninjas than WoW that has cross realm LFG?

LFD tool is going to promote people to do dungeons and will help the players getting into groups without having to sit in the fleet spaming the general chat for hours.

Making friends does not help because you level so fast in this game. I have made some friends but they are all different levels by the time you log into the game again.

Just as you don't want Duel Spec, I don't want LFD/LFG. I hate it in WoW and don't use it unless grouped with at least three people from my own guild. So, yes, I absolutely do have a choice in who I choose to play with, as I always did, because I CHOOSE to limit my use of a system I, personally, do not care for.

So, according to your argument...I don't want LFD/LFG so you can't have it!...How stupid is that? I don't have to use it if I don't like it. Have fun with it if you do.

You see how that works? CHOICE! Everything is about choice and everything I do has a choice included in it, including what I do or do not do in this or any other game. Your choices do matter. The fact that other players choose to lose their moral compass when grouped with others because they believe themselves to have some level of anonymity does not effect how I, personally, treat others in the same situation.

You can't blame the system on the choices you make or the way you treat people and you can't assume I will treat others poorly because the system is in place. This community, as the WoW community, is what WE make it. My WoW community is just fine and I do not have the issues you speak of.

I play both Hybrid AND Pure classes. I play classes with multiple's of the same spec. Holy PvE/Holy PvP spec'd Paladin. Shadow/Holy Spec'd Priest. MM/Surv spec'd Hunter. Resto/Ele spec'd Shaman. Arcane/Fire spec'd Mage. Etc. Etc. Etc. Just because you have duel spec's does NOT mean they will be played for hybrid purposes.

I'm sorry, but I don't think (and never will agree) that pure DPS classes are hurt or hindered in any way by hybrid classes. Both bring something to the table. Both are worth having. If the people you choose to play with don't think Pure's are worth having, maybe you should re-think your in-game aquaintances.

It is not the "hybrid's" fault that the "pure" feels inferior. Your arguments simply don't hold water. It does not make me a less thoughtful player because I agree that other players should be able to choose how they play, either as a hybrind or as a pure class.

I even stated that different DPS specs are more useful in different situations. Even pure DPS classes have multiple play-style spec's. What if I am a Sorcerer that wants both DPS spec's? I shouldn't be able to have a single target DPS and an AoE DPS spec because you don't want more hybrid's ruining your game? That's not really a valid argument.

If you want fewer hybrid classes and more "pure" classes, go chat with the Dev's. But Hybrid's don't hurt you as a Pure class, they bring necessary options for most end game content in most MMO's, like being able to switch a tank to a DPS rold when only a single tank is needed or being able to switch a DPS to a healing role if 3 healers are needed or being able to switch from a SINGLE TARGET DPS spec to a MULTI-TARGET DPS spec.

Get out of your box and stop trying to make everyone else play like you. The QQ over Hybrid's is over, they are not going away! If you don't like them take that issue up with the Dev's. But the "hybrid vs. pure" debate has nothing to do with duel spec as even pure classes have a reason to have multiple spec's for the single role they provide.

This is not even slightly true or in the same solar system as accurate. You are not forced to use lfg, period. It's just not true. I have an active guild in wow. I use the lfg tool to get my ready made 5 man groups to dungeons faster and to get the currency from running a random. LFG does not destroy community, there is a thriving, very active community on every WoW server I play on, and there has been an lfg tool for months.

IT DESTROYS COMMUNITY = STRAW MAN.

Saying dual spec would be a disaster is another pile of nonsense. YOU CAN ALREADY RE SPEC. All this does is make it less annoying. This is almost 15 years off mmo experience and 20 years of gaming experience overall talking. Dual spec is nothing but convenience. Not one person can offer a single logical, cogent argument against dual spec that is in any way true OR not actually an argument against RESPECCING.

All of the arguments against lfg and dual spec can basically be parsed to "I am too insecure/incompetent/don't feel I need these amenities, so I feel everyone should be limited in their enjoyment of the game to what I think is best for me."

Get over yourself. If you have friends now LFG will not make them disappear.

Dual Spec does not in any way make the game itself any easier. It does not make more bad players than there already are. If you think you will be forced to play a spec you do not want to play, you either need to get the heck out of a hardcore progression guild you do not belong in, or get some new friends.

Right after the implementation of the WoW LFG tool there was a surge of the loot ninja and complaints about them. They then added in the Class specific need before greed loot system to fix said problem.

Prior to the LFG tool players where helpful and considerate of others and actually worked on keeping a good rep. If they dint they dint get groups. There where exceptions of course but after the LFG tool folks stopped being patient with other players or new players that where still learning there class. You used to be able to ask for advice on your spec or other things and get an answer now you just get insulted or ignored.

Hmmm. Yet the LFG tool dint destroy the community at all you all cry... Yet the evidence is right there for all to see. Yes it made getting groups easier and that is fine, yet we have a chance to add it without adding in the negatives and those of us who are asking for that. You either ignore or flame.

Where?

So far the only evidence people claim to have is non existent and it can be applied to exactly everything WoW has and this game does not.

If we compare WoW without loot restrictions it still had less ninjas and problems that SWTOR has today and much more of a community. Just read all the threads on this forum about people who needs on items for their companion. This is pretty much the case and problem with SWTOR and it is far worse than anything in WoW.