SWTOR: Theme-park MMO design. End of the road?

';,,;' Currently I'm working on getting some feedback for an MMO that has a turn base combat system, a base for your guild that is custom crafted and the land terraformed to your needs for tower defence like strategy, and mission based resource gathering.

Trust me, it's nothing like what you are thinking of.

Great post and no flaming here. Some "casual" players (possibly even many) are ex-hardcores who burned out on end game being a 2nd full-time job. No more grinding 20+ dailies and heroics. No more farming 3 nights a week to support raids. No more 4 hour wipe nights twice a week with multiple six hour boss grinds on the weekends.

Casuals. They still have viable skills and can hold their own in a fair fight. They excel in team environments and have zero tolerance for attitudes. Their perfectionist edge is gone because they chose to let it go. They bask in the heat of battle but have no desire to fight an entire war. They play to win - just not at all costs. When they pat you on the back, you can add it to your resumé. And when they drink, they drink Dos Equis. Stay thirsty my friends . . .

I can say this because I am one of them. I'm a recovered hardcore. I'm a casual and I'm proud of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWH1j...30801732670E76

I'm sure they don't account for everyone, but I have lots of mmo vet friends and they pretty much universally are disappointed in swtor and comment on how they wish bioware had added more sandbox elements. Specifically: large open worlds with little pathing. Deep crafting and a long leveling process.
This is a constant topic of conversation amongst my grp of friends. We all complain about how everything is too themepark-y, too wow-y, too much content on rails. Everything is pathed. There are no real decisions that matter outside of which AC to pick. etc.
Listening to my friends comments and then coming here and seeing thread after thread highlighting the same topics. We're not alone.
Wow was a great themepark swg was a great sandbox. Now a days neither is good enough alone and elements of both are needed to create mmo innovation. Not voice overs..

LOL, well if hes saying a month and a half to level to 50 then its gotta be based on a 50+ hour a week play schedual cause 1.5 month leveling at 20-25 hours a week is WAY TO FAST!

Course I have no desire to play the 2nd part of his design

Basically hes asking for RIFT with a more timely leveling curve and NO THANKS to that.

RIFT was a great game other then super easy mode and any concept related to end game.

Equipment grind replacing skill and ability remains the stupidest game design Ive ever seen in 21+ years of MMORPG playing to me.

Now chasing drops for social status in end game is fine with me, as long as the equipment is not required to partake in end game activities.

Personally Id like to see a 4 month leveling curve (based on a experienced player (9+ years) in MMORPGs playing 25 hours a week) with NO RAIDS at end game but lots of 4-6 man Dungeons/Flashpoints and DAoC (pre RAs) RVR so its in everyones best interest to INCLUDE, not exclude based on false stats and limits/damg ranges, all faction/realm players to defend or attack around a common purpose that rewards the REALM/FACTION and not individual players or groups or guilds.

The problem with modern games is they to reward heavy on individual or group set up and dont do nearly enough to reward INCLUSSION OF ALL.

RAIDS, while a great concept originally, have been so abused and mistreated that they have become a detriment and problem to the community function of MMORPGs.

PVP as well, because of individual rewards, has become a function of exclusion and elimination based on meaningless stats (equipment) rather then joining factions and forces to a common goal!

Thats what pre RA DAoC did so amazingly well and because of it you had those future Elitist 50s BEGGING level 20s and 30s to come join in and defend the realms relic keeps and frountier keeps.

Those same people now run damage meters and look at players equipment to judge them (usually falsely and incorrectly)prior to even seeing what someone brings to table skill wise.

The Future of MMORPGs are not sandbox/themepark. PVP this, RAID that.

The Future of MMORPGs is the title that can bring community back into the genre and games.

When people dont shut general chat to off and ignore their fellow players!
When people dont say you need this set of gear or this amount of HPs or ect.

The Future of MMORPGs is the title that can bring community back into the genre and games.

There was a Farmville MMO. It was called SW:G. You may like it but it did not appeal to a lot of people. One thing you fail to realize is this is a business. All the great ideas you got (and don't get me wrong, they're great) doesn't pay the bills. The forum goers are a small population. The ranting and raving going on in the thread is tiny compared to the general game population and we do not truly represent what is going on in the average gamer in the game population.

You want cutting edge, don't expect the game to have mass appeal. You want huge titles that will draw in a LOT of people, don't expect something radically different from the norm.

Do you know why Farmvill is popular? Because it's simple. Insanely simple. So simple I'm not gonna touch it, but that's OK. Just because the game is popular doesn't mean I just HAVE to play it. Do you think the action of that farmer has any consequence on the other? Just imagine one person does some crap gets a swarm of locus and they spread to your farm. You may say "That's interactive or shows how the game changes." but the average Farmviller will get annoyed and stop playing.

You say there's nothing to do in the game but there's just as much to do as in WoW end game. 16 Hard Mode Flashpoints (6 more than WoW) , 2 Operations (3 less than WoW), 3 Warzones (5 less than WoW, although only 2 of them came out with Cataclysm), dailies just like wow, objective based world pvp planet (wow has a objective based wold pvp zone), and a FREE FOR ALL PVP AREA (WoW has a small one)

I find it funny when people say they're bored and say stuff like "Well I don't like PvP, wasn't a fan of the story, don't raid, and didn't like the crafting." So why did they even show up here in the first place fore less get a character to 50? Just because it's Star Wars or you was hoping for SW:G2 or some other version of the game BioWare clearly stated it was NOT going to be doesn't mean you HAVE to play it. Move on. Find something you find fun because that's what a game is SUPPOSED to be about. F.U.N.

I love this analogy. Some people are looking to live in the game. They want the game to be home. Log off and go home. This is as the poster said a Theme Park that you VISIT.

I agree with actionprinny, he/she ment it figuratively not to live in the game. This is the reason why you get bored of the game.

SWTOR: Theme-park MMO design. End of the road?
I hope theme parks never be made (like this) again.

Future of MMORPGS are sandboxes with a good game in the sandbox like pvp, pve, gameplay is good etc.

Oh but they have...its called GTA.

Ah, you wanted an MMO sandbox? Yes, well...we dont do those anymore, couldnt sell them.

I find this sooooooo funny. Not dogging WoW or anything because I enjoyed my time there. But if you're saying you can't one button WoW you're lying to yourself.
I've been through zones here in TOR, someone called me back to give em a hand and it's in a location I've never been. Know why? I'm not trying to squeeze out the life on every planet with one character. My other character will go there.

Whack-a-mole healing? Hehe how many WoW healers use Clique & Grid combo or Healbot. Yea very in depth.

I find it funny how people would ignore cretin things just to make their point in hopes people wouldn't notice.

You forgot a word, the many on the forum. Those do not equal the many in the game.

I've asked this before and I'll ask again, why, if as you say the majority prefers sandboxes do they not subscribe when there is a sandbox game then? So either your numbers are far smaller than you imagine or ya'll are telling fibs here what it is you want.