If you are 50 and a PvPer, why are you still here?

Why I stay, bcus I completed all the other good games or got bored of them, have you not heard of the gaming locusts?

Yes. But that's not what I'm doing by playing SWTOR over the mythical GW2. GW2 is a setting I despise. I dislike swords and dragons and dwarfs. There are already a crap ton of those types of games out there and NONE appeal to me. GW2 will be no different.

If I want "better PvP", I'll play Call of Duty or BF3. This game is an MMO and it plays like one.

You asked for proof of GW's success to argue against a subjective claim. Well, now you're trying to refute that by trying to argue based on subjective opinion. What do you want?

Economically, GW is a success. You can't argue that.

PVP-wise, GW is a success. You can't argue that either.

As for what is fun? Well, that is subjective. But you asked for successful, and I gave it to you.

The really ironic part is that GW was both a very successful E-Sport AND a niche game, which fills both of your supposed requirements as to what makes a great game.

This is another point.

GW2 couldn't make an original world. Really? They made techno-hobbits, furries and elves. They ripped off WoW, who ripped off Warhammer, who ripped off D&D who ripped off Tolkien.

I mean, ****, can we not get some originality in fantasy?

Can I not get anthropomorphic leeches instead of cat people AGAIN! Can we get a short race who are savages? How about a nature loving race that aren't elves?

Barbie funtime adventures could have the best game mechanics ever made, but it's still Barbie funtime adventures.

GW2 has the colour palette of a little kids colouring book and races that aren't even remotely original.

Why did BW even bother making half the servers PVP all they want you to do and all anyone can do is PVE... I don't know why I'm still playing.

cause i didnt rage quit like most of you did/are going to.

I find this ironic, considering the only thing Star Wars did new with the Sci-Fi genre was shiny glowsticks.

Yes, I can argue that PvP-wise GW wasn't a success because you've yet to quantify what makes a game a "PvP success".

You've yet to provide what factors you consider to be objective proof of a game's PvP success.

You haven't provided any proof yet of a objective nature, hence I have not countered your proof with objective evidence.

You're making the positive assertion, I'm making the negative assertion. This means you provide proof first, and then I get the chance to refute your proof.

Right now both of us are only working with opinions, if you'd like to provide your objective evidence of what makes a game a "PvP success" I'd be fully willing to pick it apart.

So please, go ahead.

oh you....... /giggles

Pretty awesome that you recognize this, I fall into about the same category and I think one of the regular problems MMOers (and particularly PvPers) have is that everyone thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread. I work full time, am in school full time, have a family, friends and a ton of other commitments but like a ton of dudes in my generation I enjoy the **** out of gaming. So a few nights a week I get a few hours in and have a blast playing as much as I can (often in the 12-2am region just to grind out some PvP). I'm an old school RPer (like pen and paper) and I fiddle in PvE now and again (raids when necessary to bolster PvP gear). All of this being said, I am not as good as someone who is in the hardcore PvP crowd, but I don't have to be, frankly the MMO bar of competence is pretty low (as someone mentioned earlier). SWTOR fits this approach to gameplay excellently.

Agreed, in SWTOR I don't have to be part of my huge machine of a PvP guild to achieve anything. The game's content is actually enjoyable rather than a pure grind, and it is possible to achieve long-term goals in a constrained amount of time. I appreciate that. It also puts a focus on actually being competent. It is definitely amazing reading the PvP forums before or the dude earlier's comment on Battlemaster besting a Champion 100% of the time... I don't even know what to say to that. Basically SWTOR is the kind of game where I am not worried about being zomg#1, I can be quite content with sending people to the forums with cries of "nerf commando grav round" or "nerf guardian sweep".

Yeah lifer for LotRO here and don't know that I've ever regretted it (Champions Online is a different story) that game's PvP was atrocious, but at least the devs made it really clear that PvP was not a central theme in their game. Not all games are for everyone, LotRO is definitely evidence of that... and contrary to the cries of WoW forum trolls, LotRO has been pretty successful as MMOs go.