If you are 50 and a PvPer, why are you still here?

this. gw2.

What makes this extra amusing is that in many ways WAR was a much better PvP mmo than WoW, however its lack of polish and some lasting flaws led folks to leave. I begin to wonder if uber marketing hype might not be more of a curse than a blessing for the long-term stability of a game. Sure it makes its $$ back quickfast with a huge release, but the crowd thats brought in by hype is basically the same crowd (I'd be surprised if its changed much at all since WoW came out basically) they show up, crap on the game fo ra few months then leave deeming it a "failure" beofre moving back to esports arenas and gear grinding in woW.

They always do and they also always talk up about how the game is going to die because it isn't catering to their playstyle and section of the game. They will go we will forget them and they will buy games and jump ships a month after launch.

For the record, I don't think GW2 will "kill" WoW. The only thing that will kill WoW is WoW itself. But I firmly believe GW2 will kill SW:ToR. Not kill it in terms of revenue, but kill it in terms of growth.

If nothing else I suspect its easy to mark this argument as nonsense based on the assumption that the same types of folks play SWTOR as are interested in GW2. I would seriously love to see some data on time spent in varied activities by the average SWTOR player (particularly in relation to time spent on the forums).

Note: I plan to play GW2, I just don't expect it to be jesus part 2.

In GW2 we will see the same complaints from the same people.
The WZ's are fun and Ilum is fun.

Allow me to refute some of these

Not true in the slightest. Let's be honest here, most MMO players are terrible players. They are the bottom of the barrel in skill level. As a person who plays RTS, FPS, MMOs, Action games etc, etc, I notice I am significantly more skilled than the average "I just play MMOs" player. My Juggernaut has 2 pieces of Champ gear. A chest and offhand. In a 1 v 1 fight, as long as I can get that fight into a corner where no other player gets involved, I will beat any class at any gear level. A full BM geared person has a 15% bonus across 3 stats to a freshly geared 50. They take 15% less damage, do 15% more damage and 15% more healing from Expertise. I am, on average, more than 15% better than most pure MMO players due to their lack of experience in other, harder genre of game.



A man with a knife vs a man with a sword doesn't mean the man with the knife won't win. Gear gives an advantage, but as I pointed out it's only about a 15% advantage overall from Expertise. The odds of you fighting people that are within 15% of your skill level is very small. Now, a player without PvP gear who beats one with PvP gear is even more skilled than anyone who wins any fight in a game with equalized skills.

One of the joys of PvP in an MMO is beating the better geared player, because nothing feels better than being able to objectively say "I'm better than you, and the fact you're wearing gear and I'm not proves this beyond a doubt."

Equal fights aren't as fun as beating a guy dripping in purps or one that is higher level than you. I like the challenge, that's skill to me, fighting with a handicap.

Dawn of War is a better RTS than SC2, but SC2 is the E-sport.

Mortal Kombat is the more fun fighting game, but Street Fighter is the one that gets all the tournaments.

Halo gets more tournaments than most other FPS games, second would probably be CoD.

Yet are Halo and CoD the best shooters? No.

Being an E-sport usually means you're the less fun game.

Aww, guy! Are you sad? I'll hit battlemaster within the next few days and have cleared all the content on hard +half of it on nightmare. You see child, I play the game from all angles because I enjoy playing them for what they are (That's both PVP and PVE if you're still too blinded by your hatred) Crying on the forums and demanding immediate changes or you'll quit the game = laughable to me. The game is still new and most of the PVP'ers whining are still impatient twits.

Well, SW:ToR has an excellent single player story. ANet would be hard pressed to top it, and I highly doubt they could.

But there's only so much you can do once you level every class in this game to 50 for their story, when another game does everything else better. To be fair, I believe WoW already does everything else better than SW:ToR aside from the story. Just that I'm tired of both.

You're making the assumption that Swtor subscriptions are soley based on PvP players.

Without actual numbers to support this, it is no more accurate, or inaccurate, than any other speculation.

Keep in mind that Swtor was always advertised as PvE storyline content. It was rarely advertised as PvP in its marketing. For those who know this, understand PvP was an afterthought and they play mostly for the Star Wars franchise.

All 15 of my friends in this game play for PvE content, while I indulge more often in PvP. Just an example.

So to say a PvP game will destroy a PvE game is a pretty silly comparison. Apples and Oranges ring the bell?