If you are 50 and a PvPer, why are you still here?

So you'd play an inferior game with inferior mechanics just because it's Sci-Fi over a quality Fantasy title with far better PVP?

To each his own, I guess.

I happen to want my PVP to put skill over time investment. Too many noobs think they're good PVPers just because they spend all day in their mom's basement trading kills with the opposite faction and grinding for gear.

Do you know how many MMOs have been released with the "superior PvP" tag? Ever since WoW, MMOs come out every year saying "We'll have THE BEST PvP".

And do you know what happens? Another game with PvP not as good as DAOC comes out. Another game that claims this and that and comes out and can't even match a PvP game that's almost a decade old.

Rockpapershotgun did a good write up about GW2 when they got a chance to play a test build, do you know what they said? Paraphrased "It's a good MMO, but it still hasn't reinvented the wheel and still feels like every other MMO with a bit of extra flash on the ability animations."

Do you know who Arenanet is? Like the actual people who work at Arenanet. They're the developers who made WoW. They left Blizzard when Blizzard partnered with Vivendi and they made Arenanet.

These are the guys who coded WoW, and you expect an amazing PvP game?

So what's the next game after GW2 fails to live up to your expectations? What's the game you guys will tout as "the future" of MMOs once GW2 tanks?

You haven't even played the game and you're claiming it's the saviour of MMO PvP.

I'll tell you what will be the saviour of MMO PvP. Whenever Mythic pulls their head out of their *** and makes DAoC2.

GW2 has boring art and world and has untested gameplay. How can you make assumptions with that information that it's the saviour of MMO PvP?

+1

I plan to check GW2 out (most likely) but at times I find my mind genuinely blown by the constant tides of "X game's PvP is garbage, wait till Y game comes out, it will redefine the genre" there are some really good PvP MMOs out there already... they are however very niche. There's a reason for that imo. The PvP messiah people troll around MMO forums in search of doesn't exist, and probably never will unless something really changes in the genre.

I no longer expect "zomgepic" PvP out of MMOs, I expect to have fun and some dedicated resources that I can enjoy. So far SWTOR is living up to my expectations and the speed of their developing new content gives me faith for a longer-term future. I've been through a sea of crappy PvP MMOs and the genre has gotten to the point that I don't even bother rolling on PvP servers anymore (there is no point aside from ganking due to the utter lack of consequences on death). PvP (though my only real enjoyment end game) is just for fun these days imo. People no longer care for consequences, and without them meaningful PvP cannot exist.

I love how PvPers think this game revolves around them. It'll be nice to see this forum actually turn constructive once all of the impatient, ADD twitch kids leave.

A few flaws with your argument.

First off, GW1's PVP was very successful, and probably the 3rd most successful PVP in an MMO after DAoC and WoW.

Second, I'm aware ANet has Blizzard employees. They also have Mythic employees who were directly involved in DAoC, and they are aiming more toward DAoC PVP rather than WoW PVP.

Third, I played GW2 at PAX East. Several times. The PVP is absolutely solid. The one battleground available isn't much different than Arathi Basin or the Alderaan WZ, but the mechanics were far more unique and took a lot more skill than anything you could say in this game. The fights began before they even started, choosing the right traits to pair with your skills, and selecting the weapons for situations you think you might find yourself in. Another part of it was learning when to switch and where to place certain traps (considering combo abilities). Can't say any of that in this game.

There are two problems I see with GW2, and one of which has to do with PVE. On the PVP side, my only qualm is the supposed ability to switch servers with a minimum penalty. Considering their WvWvW which puts 3 servers against each other, a big problem I see is people flocking to the "best" server and shutting out the other two.

Mechanics-wise, GW2 is far more fun and involves far more skill.

its fun gearing up and fun pvping owning choobs

I got an invite to that and tossed it by accident. How is it so far, just general impressions?

don't elaborate TO much, you know, NDA and all

Oh I cancelled last week.

This game wont give me what I expect from an MMO (it's a single player game)no matter how long it gets to develop it will feel that way to me.

Here's the problem with your argument: subjective statements made as fact.

"GW2 is far more fun and involves far more skill" quantify these statements. How do you know we find the same things fun? How do you know we agree on what takes more skill? Some argue that WoW takes no skill, some argue it takes a buttload.

"GW1's PVP was very successful, and probably the 3rd most successful PVP in an MMO after DAoC and WoW.G" quantify these statements. How are you determining success? What metric are you using to rank the success of the PvP.

You see all the arguments you've made are IDENTICAL to the arguments people made when WAR was on the horizon. Literally carbon-copy arguments.

And those arguments were said about AoC too.

People played them at trade shows and reported on the forums that they were "solid" and yet, they released and we all saw the reality.

I've been doing this MMO thing for a while, I've heard your arguments before, just about different games.

Rank 60 owning Imperials all day in premades and ganking ALOT on tatoinne and Alderaan. Swtor pvp is ****. Also we have some good Ilum fights but my server seems to be an anomaly in that Republic is super organized and generally owns the Empire.

O and to all those who are saying I am 50 and there is no pvp for me, please move on, you obviously don't know how to enjoy pvp without haveing a carrot dangleing in front of you, and you'll leave your respective pvp communities that much richer by removing yourself from the game.

P.S. If you have cancelled your account, like so many have said in this thread, stop trolling the forums and take your negativity elsewhere.

Success =/= quality is ultimately pretty subjective. If the forums of this (or any) MMO make one thing clear, it is that people do not agree on what equates "good" PvP.

I understand that you like it man, but we've all been through this exact same process time and time again at this point. Check out new game, it seems really awesome, play it for a while and discover all the flaws, rage out and move on.

Just a note on your last point. There is no more subjective term than "fun" understand that your interpretation of fun is not the same as others. On the second term "skill" its a pretty tired argument in MMOs or any video game imo. I know the esports crowd is convinced that gaming has deep meaning and value and requires all kinds of ubaleet ability. I am aware that studies have been done on the issue and that people's brains actually really respond to video game stimuli in much the same way that they do to tense physical situations. However there are some real flaws in this argument and it comes up often enough that I felt I should mention it.

Twitch is not the only "skill" in gaming, no matter how much MW3 or other FPS players may argue that it is, the argument is nonsense. Reaction time is great and all, but you're not running around playing sports outside, checkers, chess, scrabble etc are also all games requiring "skill" and no one cares how fast you move your checker or about your ubareaction time snatching up your chess piece. Strategy can and should (imo) play a huge role in the "skill" of MMO combat. When playing a game through a connection, latency will always be an issue and there are a host of other things which might limit a player's reaction time, further in MMOs not all characters are the same (this is a core flaw of the "twitch" design and what causes many FPSers etc to discount MMOs as any form of viable PvP)

WAR actually had a really high "skill level" required battles could take a long while and people who were honestly good knew first and foremost the strengths and weaknesses of the enemies they were fighting. This would imo be something for SWTOR to aspire toward.