What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

Hmm, didn't read past the first page, because I'd imagine the back and forth continued on.

So, all the hardcore no lifes feel the need to bring up progression, and how mmos are all about it. What progression really boils down to is time. Anyone can get the gear, but since some people have no real life responsibilities, they get the gear 10x faster and are that much "better". Grinding doesn't make you good and pretending it does is stupid. No, this isn't an fps, but why can't it be more like that? Why does everything need to take hundreds of hours? Because the first mmos set the pace and the others followed.

If gear were not a factor then skill would matter. Someone said on the first page that you shouldn't be equal as a fresh 50 because you could kill him to easy( that's pretty much what I got from it). Do you realize how dumb that sounds? "I have no life, so you shouldn't be able to kill me because I have more time to play"....hahahahahaha.

Get rid of gear based PvP, have a grind for cosmetic looks only and let's see who's better now that everything is equal. Let's even add a detailed stat/ranking system so you have something else to grind for. Quit being *****es and hiding behind your gear like it makes you good (which with a rng gear system is not possible).

QFT.

The truth hurts it seems.

I'm playing 3-4 hours per day, after work, and i am 63 valor rank, 4 BM pieces. So. Is this me have no life, of is this you too lazy?

you are assuming the same number of matches no queue - I am waiting 15 to 30 minutes to get in as rep on occassion over an hour wait time while my Imp toon enters the pvp queue and goes directly to a match every time.

Well if PVP gear is easy to obtain...Then everyone gets pvp gear...when ranked come out....and it just a leader-board doesnt that make everyone equal in gear?...(if everyone farmed Battle-masters before starting rank PVP). I think the gear in Swtor is just there to show the time you putt into the game....when ranked in released it will be more based on "skill"

In wow when you got past 2k your obtained a "stronger Weapon" give you the advantage over newer 2k teams. but around 2.1k 2.3k EVERYONE has the same set. BUT then it becomes Who comp counters which.. RMP FTW yo

If it makes you feel any better I just completed my daily WZ's using Rakata gear apart from my gloves which were Columni... 3 wins - 0 losses. Top 3 in damage all times...
I can live without my expertise. I'll jut switch to my PvE raid gear which actually gives me more damage output and more hitpoints.
Or i can swtich to my crappy looking orange kit that i have fully kitted out with purple I purchased from the Illum daily comms.
I use my champ gear because against BM and other cham it gives me the best offense and defence.

The point I am making is that you people cry now because people have things that you dont and pwn you and your kinds to the point of crying like you are now. If you got rid of BM everyone would switch to Rakata raid gear and then you would cry because you dont have that and everyone who was 50 before you and has it got it handed to them...
They get rid of that you'd find some other excuse for being beaten senseless and the ciycle of QQ'ing continues.
Its not about defending expertise or BM. Its about laughing at noob who thik they should automatically get the ebst of everything without having to do anything. You all say people like myself had it easy gettign our gear, but you want it given to you in an even easier manner.

Its sad, but rather amusing. Hence me hanging aroudn to point out how childish it all sounds and you all are.

umm what game do you play again? Cause it's not this one...


Flat out Fact

Go buy some PvE gear - wear it and then swap in 220 Expertise and watch your damage go up

My Aim went from 1200 to 1250 going from PvE to Camp PvP gear
Crit Chance and Multiplier about the same, Power etc a little worse

my Ranged damage went from 580/830 to 601/873

All slight improves the only major difference almost no Expertise (48 from gun) to 273.
So how is my logic on this flawed?


You would think... but that just isn't the case...
you know the easiest way to tell if you are facing a BM or not? Look at their HP you already have them targeted just hover over. you see 12k to 14k usually not in BM gear, you see 17k + probably a BM - the more hitpoints they have the less damage I do - test it for yourself - take off 200 Expertise hit a friend and then put it back on and hit the same friend tell me what you see

Once again careful your intelligence is showing here...

What part of I have been doing Warzones for the past 7 hours and I have 1 win to account for it don't you seem to understand?

Expertise and You:

The Great Big Lie.

There is a commonly held belief that Expertise was introduced to keep PvEers who raid out of PvP.

This belief, if you are capable of addition and substraction, or operating an excell spreadsheet, is pretty provably false.

It's use in game is exactly the opposite. It keeps PvP gear out of Operations.

Im only going to waste time examining the exact stats of a single piece of gear, but this can be extrapolated to the entire set. Ill then go over what that means at the end for those trying to follow along at home.

Two pieces of gear:

Battlemaster's Field Tech's Jacket:
http://knotor.com/items/612689

Summary: 92 Endurance, 94 cunning, 51 Accuracy, 48 crit, 50 expertise

Rakata Field Tech's Jacket:
http://knotor.com/items/588288

Summary: 105 Endurance (+13), 122 cunning (+28), 51 accuracy, 48 crit.

The difference in the two items come solely from the locked "Armoring" slot.

The BM Armoring is: 33 Cunning, 31 Endurance, 50 Expertise
The Rakata Armoring is: 61 Cunning, 44 Endurance

Now multiply that over an entire set of gear (as this identical armoring is in every armor item - including belts and bracers - it just "locked" so you cant see it, but you can clearly see it in datamined info)

So.. those differences x 8 (the weapon is the same way, it uses a special barrel/hilt that is the same damage rating but has exactly the same stat spreads) and you get:

a difference of 104 Endurance (1040 HP bonus to the PvE gear), and 224 Cunning!

That 224 cunning is: 45 bonus damage and 1.74% crit. JUST ON THOSE EIGHT PIECES.

The differences are even MORE pronounced on Implants, Earpiece, Relics (PvE relics have interesting on hit procs and stuff, too!), and offhands.

A quick a dirty estimate (as i already did this math once today at the Champion/Columi Level and dont feel like doing it again), estimating a little low, is ANOTHER 120 cunning and 80 endurance gained in the PvE gear, leaving us with:

+1840 HP in PvE gear
+ 340 cunning in PvE gear, which is 70 bonus damage and 2.2% crit.

70 bonus damage on some skills is a variance of 300-400 damage. THAT YOU DONT HAVE IN PVP GEAR.

Here's the important part

These stats ARE NOT ON THE PvP GEAR.

Meaning, all other things being equal, YOU DO LESS DAMAGE IN PVP GEAR.

Following?

Here's the revelation:

All the expertise does is make up for the 20% HP you're missing, and it re-adds the damage you lost by putting the PvP gear on. THAT'S IT.

It directly eats the item budget.

Conclusion:

Expertise (effectively capped by its DR formula at about 13.5%) only effectively returns you to the level of DPS you would have had in Full PvE gear of the same item level.. but it ONLY DOES SO AGAINST PLAYERS.

Summary:

Expertise isn't there to keep PvE'ers out of PvP, as the math quite clearly shows that the extra stats they get put them on an even keel the moment they hit PvP. Expertise is there to make it so you cannot gear up for PvE by PvPing.

This isn't even getting into the part where PvP gear is HORRIBLY itemized. (You know how much surge is on my Sniper set ? You know, the BEST STAT IN THE GAME for me until the soft cap? NOT ONE SINGLE BIT. Not one rating point). It is deliberately itemized to LOWER YOUR DAMAGE EVEN FURTHER.

To get decent damage out of PvP gear you have to buy other-classes PvE pieces and replace the junk mods and enhancements with ones that actually help you.

Math.

It's hard.

Then you might wish to contact Bioware about that bug.

With 3x the imperial players waiting.. you should NEVER have a queue as pub.

That's a different issue and quite possibly a technical one.

Hmm, do you have a wife? A gf? A social life, with real living and breathing friends? Adults have jobs, its what we do, we work, you're not special. I prefer to not spend all of my free time playing a game, and if I did I would want it to be by choice, not because I'm forced to do so to compete. Gaming shouldnt be a 2nd job. I'm a gamer at heart, its something I love to do, but I also like to spend time with the gf and spend time with my friends, and do other things that don't involve sitting in front of a computer, but I'm a competitive person and like to be good at what I do, but I don't have time for a 2nd job on top of my other obligations...especially if I'm not getting paid haha.

Now I know some of you will come back with "well that's your choice, so you shouldn't be able to beat me because I choose not to have a real life.". Wrong. I think people are afraid that someone who doesn't spend as much time as them would hand them their *** if the playing field were equal, and then their little digital world would come crashing down and they would actually have to look in the mirror and realize that they will never get those hundreds of hours back.

PvP should he about skill and fun, not who can grind harder so they can roll lowbies better. As I said, who cares what the mmo trend has been, where is it set in stone that everything has to be a massive grind no matter what? I understand there needs to be time taken to learn your class, fine, but when you do that, then the competition should start, not another grind.