The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

That's such a blatant lie its not funny. My <Insert Sith Warrior Class> can easily kill sorcerers. Only the best of them manage to escape let alone down me. Thats of coarse if I attack first. And if they attack first/have the upper hand, shouldn't they be able win?

Hybrid or not, they should be able to kill somebody if they get the upper hand.

You're the one talking about cake and eating it too.

Whats your problem? You mad that sorcerer can purge your precious auto heal dots? Or are you mad that you have to think instead of face-rolling buttons?

The day they take personal choice out of spec-ing is the day I go back to Rift.

Against an equally skilled Sorcerer specced 0/20/21 a Warrior will not win. Knockback(+5 second auto-root) lets a Sorcerer cast a Dark Infusion and create a LOT of distance to basically reset the fight using a 20 second cooldown if things start looking bad. It doesn't matter if the Warrior gets the jump first unless there's a pretty big gear or skill gap. Once the bubble breaks the Warrior is immobilized for 3 seconds allowing the Sorcerer to once again create distance. If things start looking very bad the Sorcerer can insta-cast a Whirlwind and break it for the 2-second stun. On the off chance things start looking particularly bad a Sorcerer can simply use the 4 second stun to nuke the warrior. If a Sorc is about to die then a quick Force Sprint and slow will make it impossible for a warrior to finish the kill. This is all in a 1v1 situation where Warriors shine by the way. In a group situation it isn't even close. A sorcerer nukes from a distance and provides a disgusting amount of utility to group v group encounters.

"You mad that a sorcerer can purge your precious auto-heal dots? Or are you mad that you have to think instead of face-rolling buttons?"

I'm pretty sure even Bioware awknowledged the fact that Marauders/Sentinels are the most difficult class in the game(Edit: LINK). You seem to think the DoTs we have somehow make us a faceroll class. Sorry to say but you have that backwards. I think you're the one mad you might not be able to faceroll to win. Right now a hybrid spec Sorcerer that doesn't even know how to properly kite can still do well. That's not balanced.

Sorcerers aren't OP, they're are just so many of them (no offense I'm on your're side Sorc community) that when you die because 3 of them focused you down you think it was just one cause of all the lightning, and don't even begin to complain about getting focused down cause that is your fault for getting in that scenario in the first place, as a Sniper (yeah there are still some of us around ) I can tell you that if anyone is OP it's the snipers haha, I've never lost a 1v1, and that's not an exaggeration that's a fact, don't worry sorcerers, I'll keep him off your backs, there's nothing a marauder can do against a sniper *roll to cover* *entrench* *turn marauder into paste*

You all go down at the same rate to a Gunnery Commando.

Snipers, Marauders, Juggs, BH's, really anything I get the drop on is done for.

I wouldn't say sorcs go down particularly fast, and armor has absolutely nothing to do with damage in PvP in my opinion.

I'm not complaining about Sorc bubble or anything, I think the talent could be buffed if only they moved it higher in the tree.

Ultimately I do agree with the OP. Make the good stuff at the top of the build.

Thats great, be a defeatest....

Any Juggernaut their salt specs for unstoppable for 1v1s. Meaning 4 second of CC immunity+20 dmg reduction after force charge. So, we now have 4 seconds of burst fun time, Bubble breaks in 2 GCDs... Now, wait for it, force push. A 2 second stun. If you time it right, you can whack them while they are in the air for overload, so they have to wait. Now Saber/vicious throw while WALKING up to him. Force choke. Now this supposedly OP sorc is getting nervous. Juggernaut with a full rage bar and hes barely made a dent. This is where you see what hes made of. Throws some CC cheese, short term CC? wait. Long term? CC break. Hopefully he falls into my trap and runs away, blowing his CDs. Force charge. Did I even mention saber ward/disruption/endure pain yet.

DONE DEAL SORC BACK TO BASE

Thats obviously one way things can go. Depending on who gets the upper hand.

Also, don't try to downplay the importance of your dots and how they can screw up your rotation. Anyone that has an annihilation marauder will agree that they make a difference in a 1v1.

Obviously, you don't have a Sorcerer, so I'll let your ignorance slide.

In a 1v1 31 madness is superior, Its more mobile and has better single target CC. For team-play shenanigans the stun on overload is fun, but not necessary.

You just described a scenario where a Juggernaut kills a Sorcerer in 4 seconds. What kind of Juggernauts have you been facing? My guess is the imaginary kind.

Here's a likely scenario:

Sorc is standing on a ledge or off to the side tab-DoTing and spamming force lightning in between for massive amounts of free damage.

Jugg leaps. Hits sorc for 4 seconds, may or may not pop bubble in this time. Sorc is still channeling force lightning at this time and likely got at least one chain lightning proc. the total damage done will be slightly in the juggs favor.

Sorc knocks back and positions himself further away and casts a dark infusion while the 5s root is active(dmg breaks it).

Jugg's leap comes off CD and he closes the gap.

Sorc uses a stun immediately and refreshes DoTs, Death Field, Force Lightning while he's crawling towards him. Chain Lightnining if it procs. Bubble is back up by now.

Jugg hits sorc 1-2 more times, pops bubble. Sorc gains distance again. Force Lightning spam.

If the jugg isn't dead at some point he's either overgeared or tank spec. Sorc can whirlwind(and break it) for another 2 second stun if needed and at that point knockback will be back up and he can do it all over again(minus the last two stuns).

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One thing your scenario doesn't take into account is the presence of team mates. I made my scenario to match even though I know how stupid it is to only look at 1v1 situations. A sorc can escape to team mates and auto-win every 1v1 that way against anyone. Melee shine in 1v1 situations yet the immense CC that hybrid sorcerers possess lets them win even at that. The only excuse for being ripped apart by melee is the lack of skill. Most sorcs never even learn how to kite because their tools allow them to perform well even with minimal skill. It's not balanced when a ranged DPS can do well without learning how to kite.

Edit: You mention Marauder DoTs again as some sort of stupidly overpowered source of damage. I've never met anyone so clueless and stupid. If anything the fact that DoTs can be cleansed makes them a liability against anyone with a brain. Just a little pro tip for you: Marauders are the one class that NOBODY ever claims is overpowered because we completely lack ANY sort of utility in PvP. All we do is DPS and pray it helps us win the game.

I don't have much to contribute, as I don't PVP. But as a healing sage, I will say that I would be angry if they moved the talent to increase force armor's absorption amount higher up the telekinetics tree. We need force armor more than a DPS sage.

I don't think that EVERY talent I mentioned should be out of reach for the other specs. I just think that at least SOME of these great talents should be higher up. If the 5s root and 3s bubble break immobilize get moved up then it would be fine for them to leave the +20% bubble lower down in the tree. It's not any one of these talents that causes the hybrid sorcs to be overpowered. It's the result of being able to combine every single one.

Because they have glowy swords

If we're doing away with hybrid builds, can we please do away with the juggy/knight tank hybrid? I mean, i really hate not being able to kill things, they need to get nerfed too!