Damage Meter, how to get if you want?

Dude, many of us played WOW too so don't pretend things were as nice as you want to make it seem. The fact is that many obnoxious idiots who had no clue who was specced for single target DPS and who was specced for AOEing down trash would invariably spam recount results after trash pulls to needle the single target folks. Want to guess which DPSer usually did that?

I personally saw that happen in PUGs 100s of times. I'm always a helaler so this type of crap doesn't affect me personally and it's fun to let the dimwits die on purpose every now and then, but I can do without the ignorant arguments and drama created by this crap.

WOW is a cesspool full of ******s and a lot of us here know that and left for exactly that reason.

You'll see a lot of resistance here to WOW "features" that helped ruin the game. Don't want Christmas decorations on wookies either.

There is no argument to be had. Only reason people are for recount type of add-on is because they suck and can't learn how to play their class without it.

My guild killed a world boss today just fine. We all died the first time, looked at what happened, then tried again, and we killed it and most of us were under level for it.

Darn, that was hard. I don't even know how good a healer I was, I didn't have a HPS meter, and my tank didn't have a threat meter and the Gunslinger didn't have a DPS meter.

None of us were confident we really killed the beast. We're still not sure. We have screenshots but without the numbers to back it up... I'm just not sure....

I consider the mod mentality to be like wall hacks in an FPS. Mostly its bad players that use them but anybody who is hyper competitive is going to use every allowed advantage they can get if they let people use them in an FPS. If you can't kill somebody then you practice you don't say "If they want people to play this they're gonna have to make it easier to kill people". Somewhere down the line in an MMO they turned being good into something that can only be accomplished with aides to tell you you're good.

I mean, come on. If you play a game to never ever have to try to do anything just so that you can pretend you accomplished something... they should just shut the servers down and send everyone to boot camp. Seriously.

Funny. Like anyone uses recount to learn his own class.

Recount is used to judge the performance of others. If you run a top raiding guild you need to see how that trial is doing, you need to see who died from what, who failed to do what at a certain time.

No wonder you're against it.

End game content keeps people subscribed. Social bull crap and voice overs doesnt. Learn what MMOs are.

Exactly.

I used Recount in WoW and I don't recall just -watching- the meter as opposed to the content on screen. I quit WoW a long while ago, and from what my friend tells me another addon's become a bit more popular, but the results are the same. Most players I know would just glance over in half a second to see what's going on, then continue with the boss.

I can completely understand why some people may not want add-ons available for the game. But to completely write 'choice' off and force everyone to play 'your' way is pretty selfish, wouldn't you say?

And I don't think I've ever come across people treating DPS charts in the same way GearScore was abused back in WoTLK. In a PuG, maybe, but in groups with friends or guilds? Only in jest, and typically charts were used to figure out who was slacking behind on DPS sensitive encounters and how they could improve.

This fear of 'elitism' and 'immaturity' will be in the game regardless of whether or not add-ons such as Recount are permitted. You're deluding yourselves into thinking it won't happen. Calm down, take a breath, and play with like-minded people if this fear compels you to behave in such a knee-jerk manner.

(I'm all for multiple ways to play and min/max; I'm not a fan of there only being -one- way to play a spec or class. However, I don't expect SWTOR to deviate too much from the current MMO model any time soon. Let's just be real, here: unless BW breaks the mold in a patch or expansion, one or two viable specs for something may be the only way.

That's not to say you HAVE to do this. In any MMO there are casual guilds and hardcore guilds. I was never a hardcore raider. No one's forcing you to be one. There were tons of guilds that did their own thing, so why can't we here?)

People saying that DPS meters aren't required to improve your DPS and hold other DPSers accountable is like the argument on the healer forums about having a healing addon or at least enabling mouseover macros.

Sure, I can drive my car with my feet.

But it's not fun, and if I can drive with my hands I can focus more on the fun while driving rather than trying to consecrate on coordinating my limbs.

With DPS meters, sure I can browse the forums, do my own testing, see how much damage my abilities do based on my stats, calculate their cooldowns and see how I can best coordinate them so I do good damage.

But is that fun? Hell no, unless you love Mathematics (and sure some people do).

I haven't experienced end-game raiding in Beta or in this game yet (too early obviously) but if it is anything like WoW or Rift, meters will be required to help you figure out who is slacking, how they can improve, and what the best rotation is.

And yes there is ALWAYS a best rotation, this is a role-playing game, there are stats, and numbers are numbers.

I levelled through Rift with mediocre groups that were able to do dungeons fairly ok, but nothing amazing.

3 months later I levelled a second toon, DPS rotations were much more widespread, as were the best damage specs, and I joined up with a group of players who had mastered these, and we tore through dungeons in 15-20 minutes instead of the usual 40-60.

And this is just dungeons, which are easy, especially since you can outlevel and outgear them.

End-game raiding is not going to be outlevelled, so you will need to perform well to be able to defeat it.


To the people claiming that in Vanilla WoW you had 15 people carry the other 25 and no DPS meters were needed, sure, but those were HUGE raids and Blizzard were able to scale them adequately.

With only 8 or 16 man raids available in SWTOR, 1 or 2 people slacking is going to make a much bigger difference.

Sorry for the wall of text, I'm not an 'elitist' player, I never got end-game content down before the nerf or next patch in WoW, but I did do my damnest to try, and without meters to show which of our DPS was slacking, which of our healers was slacking, and to help them improve, I would have given up a long time ago.

Is there seriously no combat log at all?

I know there is no addon that displays everyones information on my UI. But surely there is a combat log of my characters actions.

The problem is most people are stupid and have no idea how to figure out how to play better, that's why you see jedi in willpower gear trying to tank. It is this type of person that makes up the majority of mmo gaming hence the slow downfall of a once great game I will not name. Companies have to cater to these stupid people because there is more of them and that means more money for the company and in the end that is what matters to EA.