Fix LOLSLAM Juggs / Knights

Umm I saw a ton of 5k+ smashes, what are you seeing?

Umm I saw a ton of 5k+ smashes, what are you seeing?

Im seeing a Guardian beating on people who are less geared than him.

Again this is why videos does not prove anything, There are way to many factors to get an accurate estimate (Between gear, Buffs, and Multiple Targets).

If you truely want to prove how OP this is, go make a video with a Guardian hitting some one with Equal gear. Then you will see if it's truely OP or just a higher geared player beating on lesser ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwLo3st0rqg

Every high crit in this video is under effect of rakata adrenal and/or expertise buff, you can even see crits drops to 2k-3k range if they're under "normal" conditions.

I just owned you.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#10...RhdzZGr0ddbz.1

Here's the exchange on youtube from an operative using this as evidence and the creator of the video responds:

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I have been using your videos as anecdotal evidence of why operative burst was fine. I could never break 7k, highest I could get is around 6.2. I was stacking crit/surge mods/enh w/ power adrenal. Currently leveling my Jugg and playing on my powertech in the hopes they don't get nerfed into oblivion. My operative had burst, no knockbacks or charge, and therefore no purpose other than burst. See you on my jugg soon maybe, it was fun/scary to fight you as an operative before the nerf - Flutterspy
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Jugg only gets bigger numbers. requires much more 'set up' than operatives, and our burst is really predictable so any decent players can CC / knockback / get away from us

operatives open up from stealth and kill u while ur stunned. we cant do that, people can see guardians so they know theyre coming, so they can prepare and react accordingly. you cant react to operative b/c by the time they open on u, u are probably dead (if they use adrenal, relic

(cont.)

making previous 9~10k video as guardian is was really difficult for me. i had to pick out all 2~3 low lvls in the WZ, know where they are, know when they died (to calculate their res timer). make sure to pick up zerker buff when they HAPPENED to be around, and try to set up and execute my burst. more than half the time i fail and waste my adrenal b/c i get cc'ed or knockbacked by panicked crowd that try to stop me. then i had to wait another 3 minute to get a good crit in.

(cont)

on the other hand, making that same video as an operative would be easy as taking candy from a baby. its really easy to plan ahead while in stealth, pick out a gray in the crowd, pick up zerker and burst him with ur cd's completely unopposed.

oh the other hand, making 9k+ crit movie as guardian was hard as taking candy from US government

Here's the exchange on youtube from an operative using this as evidence and the creator of the video responds:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been using your videos as anecdotal evidence of why operative burst was fine. I could never break 7k, highest I could get is around 6.2. I was stacking crit/surge mods/enh w/ power adrenal. Currently leveling my Jugg and playing on my powertech in the hopes they don't get nerfed into oblivion. My operative had burst, no knockbacks or charge, and therefore no purpose other than burst. See you on my jugg soon maybe, it was fun/scary to fight you as an operative before the nerf - Flutterspy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jugg only gets bigger numbers. requires much more 'set up' than operatives, and our burst is really predictable so any decent players can CC / knockback / get away from us

operatives open up from stealth and kill u while ur stunned. we cant do that, people can see guardians so they know theyre coming, so they can prepare and react accordingly. you cant react to operative b/c by the time they open on u, u are probably dead (if they use adrenal, relic

(cont.)

making previous 9~10k video as guardian is was really difficult for me. i had to pick out all 2~3 low lvls in the WZ, know where they are, know when they died (to calculate their res timer). make sure to pick up zerker buff when they HAPPENED to be around, and try to set up and execute my burst. more than half the time i fail and waste my adrenal b/c i get cc'ed or knockbacked by panicked crowd that try to stop me. then i had to wait another 3 minute to get a good crit in.

(cont)

on the other hand, making that same video as an operative would be easy as taking candy from a baby. its really easy to plan ahead while in stealth, pick out a gray in the crowd, pick up zerker and burst him with ur cd's completely unopposed.

oh the other hand, making 9k+ crit movie as guardian was hard as taking candy from US government

That was me. Post-1.1 you don't have to get the expertise buffs anymore so setting up the smash is just as easy as it is on an operative. I now have an operative, jugg, and powertech at 50 and I can safely say that they are all easy to set up burst on. Operative is easily the most restrictive of the three and does the least damage.

Powertech simply incindiary missiles, thermal det, rail shot, then proceeds to spam flameburst hoping for rail shot procs. You pop cooldowns right before the incendiary missile goes off (plus they get +25% crit from a buff on top off adrenals/trinkets).

Operative must be in stealth and must make it to the target in stealth (not easy, takes a while if the target isn't standing still, the target must also be on the same z-axis, i.e. not on a catwalk). The operative then pops trinket/adrenal, acid blade/hidden strike, lacerate, debilitate for stun, take cover instantly and pop explosive probe, by now acid blade dot is gone so acid blade/backstab, then shiv, then laceration.

Juggernaut is the most flexible of the three. They can set up their burst on any target. The other two require setting up on the same target they intend to kill. A juggernaut makes for the perfect dps switcher because he can choke/crush one target and then force charge and smash the intended target. To set up juggernaut burst you simply choke/crush a target, charge (while popping adrenal/trinket), then smash. You can also force push, then charge, then smash. The juggernaut set bonus helps this even further by increasing the juggernaut's damage by 10% when he charges and also healing him for 8% health.

My hidden strike can barely break 4k now. I've seen plenty of juggernauts still able to break 7k. Hidden strike is harder to set up and isn't AoE. Hell, my powertech's rail shot hits harder than my hidden strike now and that's used every 5-6 seconds or so, has a 30 yard range, and doesn't require stealth.


TL;DR - If hidden strike was nerfed, smash needs to be nerfed. Juggernauts are the best burst target switchers in the game because their burst doesn't require them to set it up on the intended target first, making it really hard for healers to prepare for it. On top of that it's AoE, also making it hard on healers.