Here is my problem with how George announced why he was retiring.

He basically complained that people didn't like HIS vision of what he wanted HIS movies to be, mostly because they would have sucked if he had his way originally, and so he was taking his ball and going home. I've never seen a more ungrateful 'artist' if you can call him that anymore. Seriously the guy craps out some half assed idea, some brilliant movie exec saw the potential and forced George to actually make a movie that would sell, now he wants say the quality he did originally was a failure because it wasn't his? Jesus, the guy needs to be backhanded back to reality lol. I guess now that he's made his money he doesn't have to give a crap that he managed to piss off the people that worshiped him for years. Ah well...just goes to show some 'artist' let fame go to their head.

He really truly isn't. His congressional testimony involved altering other people's movies. He is altering his own. You're comparing apples to oranges.

You're going to have to start caveating with "in my opinion" if you want to stick with your "agree to disagree" statement. Because as I've stated, I firmly believe altering ESB and ROTJ is altering other people's movies.

Except when he released the original theatrical versions on DVD as bonus discs you mean?

 

All he's refused to do is spend millions of dollars restoring the originals, as is his right. What makes many so-called Star Wars "fans" obnoxious ***** is them trying to dictate to him how to spend his own money.

He didn't release the original theatrical versions on DVD. He released a rip of the Laserdisc: a copy of a copy that had itself been altered from the originals. Nobody's dictating anything. We're saying that as long as he deliberately snubs his fans by suppressing the creative works that hundreds of people beyond himself worked on, which is his right, we have every right to call him a *******.

And stop with this "so-called fan" bull****. You don't have to suck every drop of milk from George's teat to be a fan. In fact, I would argue that being able to critically analyze the Star Wars franchise and recognize that certain aspects of it are complete garbage, makes you more of a fan. Because it means you appreciate it enough to not blindly accept that something's good just because it has Star Wars on the label.

If he does it like Star Trek and splits the time lines (letting the originals and the extended universe continue existing). I don't have much of an issue with it, but in all likelyhood, it's just some rumor that wont actually happen.

Heh heh...I think you're mixing up your threads: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=264107

You, sir, have missed the point.

 

Good writing is "owned" by those who read it. That's why there are classes on Hemingway, and Faulkner. Those guys understood that once a story leaves your desk and is released unto the masses, it is no longer "yours" any more than it is "theirs." Those two would never come out and say, "But, I meant for it to be _______ " or "This is what I wanted for _______ ." They understood that a good story will mean any number of things dependent upon the person who reads it. Lucas does not. It's his thing, and nobody is playing with it the way he wants them to.

 

I never claimed ownership of anything, and you obviously only read what you wanted to of my post. It's not about fan ownership. It's about a man who let other people play in "his sandbox" and then got upset when they made a better sandcastle than he did. It's about a man who, like a spoiled child, threw a tantrum about it.

Your radical ideas on Lucas are frustrating and completely over the top. In response to this post, "good writing" is a relative idea. Your idea of "good writing" and my idea of "good writing" are two completely different things. I personally will always respect a person who writes for himself over a person that writes for his fanbase. I know an almost equally radical idea, but I can list a few examples where writing for the fanbase hasn't worked out.

I don't ever recall Lucas throwing a fit about what other creators are doing in his universe. The fact of the matter is, Star Wars is George Lucas's world. Opening up the universe to other creators isn't something he had to do, but he did it anyways. While many writers have done incredible things with his universe, they all originally stemmed from his ideas. Look at SWTOR. The Republic is heavily influenced by the way it is presented in the movies and the television show. You talk about Timothy Zahn and Aaron Allston, and while they did great things with the universe, they didn't create it. A lot of the fame they currently have wouldn't exist without it.

You may not be "claiming ownership" of the universe but you attempting to speak for the fanbase. I don't appreciate it. I like the prequels, I like the original trilogy, I like the old republic and the new republic, I like Star Wars. I'm not going to pretend that everything George Lucas did was perfect, because he made some mistakes. It just frustrates me that people like you always stand up on your soap box with a megaphone calling Lucas a heretic and a traitor, while paying for a subscription to an MMO that wouldn't exist without him or spending countless money on books that wouldn't exist without him.

The problem with George Lucas is that he no longer recalls WHY he wrote Star Wars and the sources he drew upon to create his universe. Lucas was a student of mythology and created his story based on mythilogical archetypes such as the lone hero, the anti-hero, the epic saga, the progression from naive child to manhood. Mythology was all about growth but more importantly, it was about the story, not about the author.

Granted most mythological stories evolve in the telling over time and in that regard I can understand Lucas' desire to make the story fit more into his idea of what it should truly be. However, even if the story was originally created by him, even if the words are still his, the emotions tied to that story can no longer be claimed by HIM and him alone. That's what I think people fail to lach onto in this discussion. We as Star Wars fans want to redicule Lucas for changing the story. I say that he's more than welcome to it. Yes the story is his idea in the first place and it's his RIGHT as the author to change it. But the emotions tied to the mythology should not so easily be altered.

Ancient stories of gods and heroes are not remembered for their authors. In most cases they have no authors. Even when the author is mentioned, it is only in passing (we all read the Iliad and the Oddessy in school, yes Homer wrote it... and that's really all there is to mention). The story and the emtions that story evoke in us as the readers are the important part. The epic saga of Star Wars touched something emtional within all of us. It was a universe far beyond our ability to touch yet seemingly so within our grasp to understand.

And that right there is why people are truly angry with George Lucas. It's not that some of us don't agree that it's his story and he can change it if he wants to. The reality is we feel that if he were truly the man he was when he concieved the idea of Star Wars and then put his idea out to the world, he would understand our frustration with constant changes and realize that even though he can change it, he should realize for the fans he shouldn't.

A good example is the imfamous "Han shot Greedo first scene." When we first meet Han Solo we see a brash young space pilot seemingly at home in a seedy backwater bar on a world of ill repute. He's a man who knows about the hard side of life and is used to defending himself. If you KNEW that a ruthless fat slug put a bounty on your head and then some sleazeball bounty hunter came to collect, are you going to let him shoot at you first because it's the honorable thing? Hell no!

Han is honorable... he rescued Chewbacca because he was being mistreated, but survival trumps honor. So he blasts Greedo first. That's perfectly within his character archetype. He's the anti-hero. In the first movie he takes potshots at Stormtroopers as he rounds the corner on the Death Star corridors. He doesn't wait for them to shoot first. Darth Vader surprises him on Bespin's Cloud City. He shoots first. Han is the survivor anti-hero. The guy who you know has a shady background but who is good at heart. You love him because of that idea that he can shoot the bounty hunter first because it's the wise thing to do, to survive, but also because he flies headlong into danger to save some farmboy out to blow up a Deathstar. It's the dual nature of Han Solo's warring personality that makes you hope he changes his ways and becomes truly good... an image that plays out across the 3 films. That scene, that one little incident set's the tone for his whole characer progression.

As with all the things Lucas did, that change was minor, but the change to the emotional context of the scene was enormous. Lucas owns the rights to the words of the story, not the emotions. He should understand he felt something when he wrote those stories the first time and that as fans when we saw the story for the first time we felt something as well, something that will always stick with us. Changing that story wrenches the heart out of many of our childhoods. As writer it's his perogative to change the story. As a fan of the story, he should realize he doesn't need to.

Even George Lucus doesnt like SWTOR that he retired.

 

Dont tell me his retirement and the release of SWTOR being this close together doesnt mean anything

It means your paranoid?

(Snip)

Indeed. Nobody is at any point arguing what he does or does not have the right to do (which means those of you pointing out that it's his universe and he can do what he wants are wasting your breath every damn time), we're arguing that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I also want to take a moment to point out to those who argue he hasn't hypocritically defied his congressional statements on altering works need to actually read what he said. Particularly his introduction:

My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.

 

I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I’ve come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.

 

The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

 

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

And I would like to once again state that he was only one of hundreds of artists that worked on these films. Whether it legally belongs to him or not, he is rewriting American cultural history.

 

And stop with this "so-called fan" bull****. You don't have to suck every drop of milk from George's teat to be a fan. In fact, I would argue that being able to critically analyze the Star Wars franchise and recognize that certain aspects of it are complete garbage, makes you more of a fan. Because it means you appreciate it enough to not blindly accept that something's good just because it has Star Wars on the label.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are willing to heap verbal abuse and be so relentlessly negative about the man who created the object of your passion, then you do not deserve to call yourself a fan, period. That isn't fandom, it's an unhealthy obsession. Because whether you want to admit it or not, Star Wars would have existed with or without Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand. It would not have existed without George Lucas. And if you are going to call yourself a fan with any integrity you should show a little respect for that at least. In short, criticize the work, but don't constantly and relentlessly attack the man to whom you owe your "fandom."

It's funny to read this thread. It's all a bunch of people whining.

I think Kevin Smith said it best, "If Lucas wants to make another version of ROTJ where the Empire wins, more power to him it's his movie."

Bad analogy. Really bad analogy. Let me fix it for you.

 

Let's say he came up with the design for the aforementioned Aston Martin, then got a team of experts to get together and, using the technology at the time, make it the most amazing, memorable car of its era, whereby while he had the idea, the designers and engineers he hired are the ones that actually made it work. You bought this car, thinking it was the most amazing thing ever.

 

Then, years later, he takes your car, removes a bunch of the features that its designers received Automobile of the Year awards for and adds oversized spoilers and a giant wing on the back. You say "Wait, I liked my car the way it was," and he says "I didn't like the old one, and this one's better. And it was my idea, so I can do what I want."

 

Then he charges you a processing fee for a bunch of crap you didn't want and drives off.

 

Nope, that's not selfish.

That would work, except you never own the car. George owns the car...we just get to drive it.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are willing to heap verbal abuse and be so relentlessly negative about the man who created the object of your passion, then you do not deserve to call yourself a fan, period. That isn't fandom, it's an unhealthy obsession. Because whether you want to admit it or not, Star Wars would have existed with or without Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand. It would not have existed without George Lucas. And if you are going to call yourself a fan with any integrity you should show a little respect for that at least. In short, criticize the work, but don't constantly and relentlessly attack the man to whom you owe your "fandom."

I respect that George Lucas created Star Wars, and I respect that it wouldn't exist without him. While Star Wars would exist without Kirshner and Marquand, the original trilogy would not have existed as we know it without them. Such iconic moments as Han uttering "I know" instead of "I love you too" simply would not have happened, because that was Irvin Kirsner's call. If you read the quote I linked, Lucas actually nixed the idea, and Kirshner had to convince him to put it in. And now it's remembered as one of the greatest moments in all the films.

I don't deny Lucas his right to change Episode IV all he wants, or to make the prequels however he wants them to be. I respect that right, even if I personally disagree with the decisions he made. But I also respect everyone else that was involved in making Star Wars great. I am a fan of the Original Trilogy as a whole, and I don't insultingly lay all of its greatness down at the feet of one man. And neither should he.

And you believe everything you read on the internet, do you?

I mean, God forbid he retires to enjoy a lifetime's work, right?

It’s true, George Lucas owns the original Star Wars trilogy lock, stock, and barrel.

I don’t think that’s in dispute.

George Lucas got where he was, at the end of the day, primarily because of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. Not the Special Editions, not the Prequel trilogy, but those first three films from the mid-70’s to the mid-80’s.

Yes, he did wonderful work on American Graffiti, on Raiders of the Lost Ark, and on other movies, but the original Star Wars trilogy is what he will be most remembered for.

I think most people who are angry about the constant changes are angry because there’s no need for Lucas to not offer the originals alongside his retouched versions. As VHS players and laserdisc players break down and become impossible to find, the original movies will be hard for a lot of people to find. Sure, there is a DVD version (I have them), but I can understand why a lot of people are hurt by the seeming-idea that George Lucas appears to be doing everything in his power to make sure those original films, the ones who made him a household name, are lost, lost in favor of constant tweaks and changes.

Yes, legally he can do what he likes to them. No one argues that. But SHOULD he do it? I have no idea why he chooses to. I love the originals, warts and all. I’m just over 40. I grew up watching Creature Double Feature on Saturdays on WLVI56. I love the Ray Harryhausen movies. I love the 1930’s King Kong and the old black-and-white and color Godzilla movies. I loved Them and The Day the Earth Stood Still (the original) and Forbidden Planet. So what if I can see the wires, or the framing in some of the effects shots? I loved those movies.

I don’t care if the SFX aren’t up to the current standards. I loved the movies as they were. I grew up with them. I wanted to be Luke Skywalker.

You’re right, Lucas owes me nothing. Absolutely nothing. But why is he trying to constantly retouch these films? It’s not a trend others are following (thank goodness), so why? It’s almost like he is ashamed of them – and yes, I freely admit that’s subjective and projecting on my part.

Is there some entitlement from fans? Oh, is there EVER. Does Lucas make it worse with his actions? Abso-freakling-lutely. Neither side is blameless, but one has the weight of history (how many films get constantly reworked like this) and the other, while in the legal right, seems to be deliberately trying to alienate his fanbase just as fervently as they attack him.

Maybe there’s no absolute right side, but don’t pretend there isn’t a reason, even if not legally correct, for why a very vocal portion of the fanbase is angry.

And yes, I know, Spielburg did the same thing, editing E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial when it came out on DVD. And he got lambasted by the public, too, didn’t he?

Take it and run,

And you believe everything you read on the internet, do you?

 

I mean, God forbid he retires to enjoy a lifetime's work, right?

Do I believe a direct quote from a reputable newspaper who knows that if you use quotations in your article, and the person didn't say those exact words, you can be sued for libel?

Yes, I believe that.

Edit: And while Spielberg did the same with E.T., he still released the original version alongside the Special Edition (he's also been man enough to admit the walkie talkies were a mistake).

"I think there are a lot more important things in the world than feuds with fanboys, Lucas says with a kind of weary diffidence."

See Below

George Lucas is a child. Worse, he's a child throwing a temper tantrum.

 

Fact is, he made up an awesome universe, and, when there were people to reel back his more stupid ideas, he made a decent movie (The Empire Strikes Back, ftw!).

 

But then a bunch of far-more-talented writers started playing in his universe and doing MUCH better jobs at it (Timothy Zahn, Mike Stackpole, Aaron Allston...). Those guys, the authors of the EU made Star Wars the mega-awesome, incredibly alive, and amazing universe that it is today. Those guys are why people are still hard-core fanatics about Star Wars.

 

Most Star Wars fans will tell you they hate George Lucas. Why? Because he has a lot of really stupid ideas, and he's completely disconnected with his audience (i.e. - Gungans, Ewoks, and Midichlorians).

 

He was throwing a tantrum with the prequels. He was basically saying, "No! These are my toys! And, I don't care that you've all done amazing things with them, they're mine. And, I'm going to do what I want with them! And, there's nothing you can do about it! Neener, neener, neener!"

 

And, nobody could reign him in this time.

 

He's the worst kind of "artist." He's the kind of artist who doesn't trust his audience, who doesn't think his audience is smart enough to get his story. He doesn't realize that once you publish or produce a work it's not "yours" anymore. Not in the strictest sense, anyway. Good writing will mean something slightly different to each person experiencing it. With the prequels, we got to see just what kind of writer Lucas was with such wonderfully cardboard lines as:

 

"...I have trained you since you were a small boy." Obi-Wan says this to Anakin in ROTS, like he's talking to a stranger. Like he has to explain to Anakin that they've been hanging out for the past 20 years, practically living together, forming an almost father/son relationship. Like Anakin doesn't know who Obi-Wan is or why he should listen to him.

 

or

 

"My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." Are we watching DragonBall Z? Does Anakin have some kind of Force-o-Meter to tell him how good he is? Nobody would say that!

 

Mr. Lucas is breaking a fundamental rule of good writing. He's using dialogue for exposition. His characters are literally describing things in their world for the audience. Instead of letting the action tell us how ****** Anakin is, he has his character come out and quantify it for us. Instead of trusting the audience to know who Obi-Wan and Anakin are by the time ROTS comes out, he has one of his characters come out and say it. This is stuff you learn in Creative Writing 101. One doesn't use dialogue for exposition. It's bad writing, and it's insulting to your audience.

 

It's not enough that he makes boatloads of money off of every book/toy/videogame/comic/idea that has anything to do with Star Wars, he has to pull his wang out and remind everyone that it was his idea to start with. It's not enough that he's raking in cash off of people far more talented than he. It's not enough that people still love Star Wars because of these more talented people and the stories they've told within that universe. He can't just sit back and watch this beautiful universe unfold and grow and expand. He's got to remind everyone that it's not how he would have done it, and therefore, it's not "official."

 

Well, Mr. Lucas, if you had kept it all to yourself; if you had told the story the way you wanted to, nobody would ever have read/watched it. You wouldn't have an infinite revenue stream. You wouldn't have Skywalker Ranch. You wouldn't have everything you have now. You'd be that nerd in a basement writing stories and making movies for his Mom as she reads and watches patiently, knowing they're terrible but massaging your ego anyway because you don't have any friends.

 

Good, you're "retiring." Maybe now the universe will be just a little less stupid. Maybe now we won't have to endure things like beloved characters being killed off because you don't trust your audience to know the difference between Anakin Skywalker and Anakin Solo (because no two people in any universe have ever shared a name, George /sarcasm). Maybe now we won't have to endure gungans or the idea that teddy bears with sticks and rocks could defeat an army of trained and battle-hardened STORMTROOPERS wearing armor designed to deflect small-grade blaster fire.

 

You know why you get hate-mail George? It's because you're that spoiled kid everyone knew growing up. You're the kid nobody wanted to play with after about half an hour because nobody would play the way you wanted them to. You get hate-mail because even though you're that jerk, you make unlimited amounts of money. You reap the rewards of those better suited to tell this story than you, and you're upset about it! You sit on a pile of money that you don't have to work for and then have the audacity to complain about and degrade the way that money gets there.

 

Sure, you created the universe, bully for you. We'd like you better if you weren't such a dick about it.

 

Sincerely,

 

Myk

After reading this thread I'm right there with George... Jesus talk about a more lothesome irritating group of people than the Star Wars fan. I love the movies I love the EU it's all Star Wars to me but don't ever call me a Star Wars fan.

I'm sorta surprised this thread is still going, but not really. These things need caps for a reason.

Anyway, I just wanted to add this into the mix. I found it off reddit about a week ago. They've been in a big huff over copyright law over there, but it's very relevant to the discussion here because the article deals with it from the George Lucas/Star Wars point of view.

http://blog.cgpgrey.com/copyright-forever-less-one-day/

The short version for anyone who doesn't want to follow the link is that copyright in its original form was meant to help encourage artists to make their creations and give them the time they needed to make a profit off of their work. The copyright for Star Wars would have expired in 2005 under the original laws.

Instead, however, copyright law in the US has been extended to protect work for the lifetime of the creator +70 years. It's largely been pushed by Disney, which ironically built its empire off recycling old stories themselves.

I'm sorta surprised this thread is still going, but not really. These things need caps for a reason.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to add this into the mix. I found it off reddit about a week ago. They've been in a big huff over copyright law over there, but it's very relevant to the discussion here because the article deals with it from the George Lucas/Star Wars point of view.

 

http://blog.cgpgrey.com/copyright-forever-less-one-day/

 

The short version for anyone who doesn't want to follow the link is that copyright in its original form was meant to help encourage artists to make their creations and give them the time they needed to make a profit off of their work. The copyright for Star Wars would have expired in 2005 under the original laws.

 

Instead, however, copyright law in the US has been extended to protect work for the lifetime of the creator +70 years. It's largely been pushed by Disney, which ironically built its empire off recycling old stories themselves.

That's interesting, and looking at the Disney perspective, is complete bull****. But where Star Wars is concerned, I think it's fair that he has the right to protect his work for as long as he is alive. I'm just annoyed with what he's decided to do with that power.

Ah yes, the good old "It made a ton of money, so it must be good!" argument. We haven't heard that one in a long time.

Justin Beiber makes boatloads of cash....must be great music, right?

Right?